November
2020 is a special month this year for citizens of United States. Nation is
going to choose the next president for following four years. In US, there are
two parties that dominate political scene for years which are Democratic Party
and Republican Party. Donald Trump secured the Republican nomination without
any serious opposition alongside incumbent vice president Pence. On the other
hand, Joe Biden was chosen as a candidate for presidential run from Democratic
Party.
The future
president is not chosen directly by people. They are voting in their states for
candidate, but each state has its own number of electors and that officials
have right to vote at Electoral College. Every state has different number of
Electors depend on the population in particular state. For instance, State of California
has 55 electoral votes, but Alaska has only 3.
But is it possible to lose the popular vote and
still win the election? This question is asked during every election in US. In
2016, Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by almost 3 million votes,
Donald Trump garnered almost 57 percent on the electoral votes, enough to win
the presidency. That comes to the clue of our considerations which is faithless
electors.
The United
States Constitution does not specify a notion of pledging, no federal law or
constitutional statute binds an elector’s vote to anything. All pledging laws
originate at the state level. But if your vote does not truly matter and is
dependent on someone’s decision, is that still a democratic country?
Questions:
1. What do you think about Electors
system in US?
2. Does it a democratic country after
all?
3. Do you think that polish system is
better than US one? Why and why not?
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector
https://www.nytimes.com/article/the-electoral-college.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COmW6r23zas&t
Comments
It seems unfair to me. The election of the president should be decided by citizens, and not most often by legally obligated electors (in 33 states, electors are legally obliged to vote for the person they have pledged to vote for, in other states they are not obliged to do so). Even if one candidate has a greater number of votes selected by US citizens, he still has a chance to lose. I believe that the concept of democratic elections has been well described in our constitution, election should be:
- general
- equal
- direct
- and voted by secret ballot.
Citizens of Puerto Rico and other areas within the US cannot vote, so it is not general election. Several million Americans do not participate in the presidential election.
They are also not equal. Each state gets two electors regardless of the state's population size and the rest of the electors relative to the population. A voice in smaller states is proportionally worth more than in larger states.
They are not direct because Electoral College votes in place of the voters.
The presidential election are voted by secret ballot, while presidential election are not, so I don't know if it can be said that they are fully voted by secret ballot.
3. It seems to me that taking into account the above-mentioned things, the presidential election in Poland is better. On the other hand, I would personally introduce the rule that only people with secondary education can vote. I do not know if such a principle would not be excluded on the principle of equal elections.
2. Is it a democratic country? Most certainly. But the Republicans rule there too.
3. Yes, the Polish electoral system is definitely better than the American one. Because it is uniform, more honest. Except for the action with Sasin, who spend PLN 70 million on the elections that did not take place.
I find it scary and funny. All observers had reservations about the elections held in Belarus and Russia, however, none of them have anything to complain about as far as the US is concerned. Additionally, one of the candidates behaves like an offended 5-year-old. As for the electoral system itself, well, someone was also making these decisions about the possibility of postal voting. Now that it has been legally approved, it cannot be denied. You have to respect the law.
2.Does it a democratic country after all?
Sure, I think that's a democratic choice. Why should I disagree? I think the US system is almost perfect. Each state has a different number of electors. This gives the states that actually determine the US economy more voting power. The example with Alaska is great - I know it is a land rich in natural resources, but it is marginal in terms of the economy, which is why it has so few votes.
3.Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
I don't think both systems are perfect. But the US system is much better. Why? Because the voters who make the greatest contribution to the maintenance of the state should have the greatest influence on the election of the government. As I wrote above. Why is Warsaw equated with Kraśnik? After all, it is the inhabitants of Warsaw who significantly contribute to the development of the entire Polish economy. I believe that such a system would work well in Poland.
2. I believe that it is a democratic country but with a different approach to democratic voting. It's hard for me to express myself because I don't feel like a great democrat and a person who respected the principles of democracy at all costs. But despite this, I say yes, it is a democratic country.
3.The Polish system is what it is. It's not great, but it's also not the worst. I think that all people's voice should not always be equally important. It sounds cruel, but we can see an example in recent events. The electorate of our current president is farmers and simple people from the village. Who was the first to protest against the government? Farmers. Those who chose him. Simple people, often not educated. They succumbed to propaganda. This is one example among many.
I believe that it's not the best approach when it comes to democracy. The votes are not directly choosing their president which means that not always the will of the majority people is respected and it did happen already a few times in USA.
2.
As written above it is some form of democracy but not a perfect one.
3.
Yes, I think the Polish voting system is quite standard and was tested all around the world to be fine. I believe that the only better solution would be to vote by internet and organize more referendums so that people get more to say in different matters.
I think that Electors system in US is very interesting. I have personally followed the results of this year's elections and observed the statistics from time to time. I like this system much more than a simple voting where the person who won the majority of the votes wins.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
To be honest, I have no interest in politics or political matters, so it is hard for me to say anything about it. However, it is important to remember that the rules of victory were known to everyone and it was people who decided who would win
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
In my opinion, the system in Poland is better because a person who gets more votes wins. However, I find the system in Poland less spectacular and I had much more excitement when checking the results of American elections. I prefer polish system but i much more like US system.
2. If they call themselves a democratic country, they can be a democracy. I leave this question unanswered :)
3. Yes, I believe our system is better for its predictability and simplicity. Each vote is equal to one vote. Simple. Of course we can argue that not everyone should have a permission for voting, but that's the beauty of democracy.
I think it is more interesting than polish because you have counting votes through few days and emotions are keep being high.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
In my opinion it is democratic country but you have few types democracy and its one of them.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
Polish system is quite basic because the winner is person with more votes. Probably at the end it is giving better result.
Nevertheless, I believe that it is still a democracy because the majority decides.
It's not the perfect one but perfect one does not exist but every system of voting depends on country code so I believe that it is better fit for the US than more European election systems. I quite don't undestand it despite the description so I believe that many people don't get it too.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
I believe that US is more republic than strictly democratic but I won't judge them in that term because of its history and general attitude to election. Overall it is hard to say what is democratic and what isn't especially in the world of many populists and global changes
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
There isn't 'better' system. Every election system is based on country-code and is built by the history of every region. To answer this question we would have to live there and start thinking like us citiziens
I think your rule about voting after graduating secondary education is kind a inappropriate. Elections are for people to decide what kind of president they will be. I agree that US system is worst than polish one. Even though, some states has rule about faithless electors, making theirs vote invalid, I think it’s still will of that elector directly not mine as it is in Poland.
You are right. I’m not living in US to judge their system and said which one is better but I think in Poland, at least I have a directly influence to chosen president. My vote decides like many votes in country decide about future president. But thank you to show your point of view.
Im not sure if I understood your correctly but in my opinion, US system is not better than ours in Poland. I know number of electors depends on how many people lives in specific state, make states more and less important I would say. Maybe I get used to voting directly for a candidate so do US citizens and what is strange for me, it’s normal for them and vice versa.
2. Yes, and I have no doubts about it. We should be actually aware that democracy is a perfect system only on paper (probably like every other) and it creates it's own problems too.
3. It depends on what system you are talking about. The system in the USA favors two candidates in which we eventually vote between two people (just like we do in the second round for the presidential elections). We don't have (in my opinion) a perfect system in Poland, but still, it is better, because we can see more diversity on the political scene. I don't like making votes "because it is a lesser evil" and I believe many people think the same. But as I already mentioned in an answer to question 1, calculating scores based on states is not a problem for me, and I can't say that here in Poland it is better, because "single person vote counts".
Your opinion hits me in positive way. US System favors two candidates as you mentioned and that’s something I cannot understand. Of course, funds are important role here. There are still more candidates running for presidential seat but without funds, it is hard to fight for voters in every state. USA Tradition makes two parties system and citizens have to live with that. Many people can say that it’s become republic rather than democracy. But every political system has its pros and cons. I find a interesting article as a addition: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/two-party-system-broke-constitution/604213/
I don't think I have enough knowledge to express my opinion on this subject. At first it seems strange that every citizen individually cannot vote but I believe this makes a deeper sense.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
In a way it's still a democratic country but indirectly. I guess citizens can vote for electors who will later vote for the president in their best interests. It means that it's still democratic country but in a different sense.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
I don't think so. In my opinion the Polish system does not function properly. Why? In Poland, people living in the countryside constitute the majority. These are usually uneducated and poor people. They constitute the majority so they decide about the fate of our country. What is the problem? Their difficult financial situation pushes them to make choices that are beneficial only to them. They are not interested in the fate of the country, the most important thing for them is to survive at this moment. As a result, the country doesn't develop, and entrepreneurs and intellectuals are held back.
In my opinion it’s still democratic country after all, even with this stupid election system, but this system works in the USA, and fits much better, then polish system there. It’s because of the number of votes they need to count.
Strange but okay. The faithless electors never have hade impact on the final result so it isn't a problem despite it looks like one. We can tell that the problem is that you can vote for one person but most of your state voted for another so your vote will also be given to the second one. Seems a bit unnatural, but if to look closer to a bit more familiar systems, as in Poland, for example, they also don't work in the way they should.
2.Does it a democratic country after all?
Like most of the other democratic countries. Democracy was developed by Ancient Greeks and first only married free man could vote. So you shouldn't misunderstand the concept of democracy. It's not about equality, banning slavery, unicorns and rainbow. It's a way to make decisions by a large group of people (yeah, usually regardless of the money amount in your pocket). Other stuff is also good, but it is part of other social institutes.
3.Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
I'm not very familiar with it, but I think you just vote for one person you want and who have 50+ percents of votes wins. Seems pretty good, works... well... it doesn't. It's good only if you have two candidates. If you have three and more and no one wins in a first-round, there are different problematic situations described in sociology and game theory, but they are worth a separate presentation.
Someone said that US system seems to be a republic rather than democratic but formally it’s still democracy :). In Poland, its kind a different story. People are pushed to choose option that’s not suits them but provide benefits as you mentioned. But I am convinced that everyone votes not for the best candidate but for candidate or party that help to survive in country.
I can't judge that polish system is better than US because demarcation is not the best option for choosing government. We see this in Poland that one political party give a lot of people something (of course they pay for it from their taxes but they don't realise that..) can "buy" this votes. It makes no sense that every who have more than 18 years old can vote because a lot of group of people political party can "buy". All our elections look like "who give more money from taxes" and that is very unfair. I think weighted average all of the votes will be the best, someone who have higher education and basic knowledge about economy/how country works should have higher weight of vote.
I believe it is a democratic country. But I'm not an expert and I don't want to comment on it.
In my opinion, the Polish system is better. Every vote is as important as others. Also, we don't have to register to vote.
2. I think that this is a democratic country but it has a specific type of elections which seems unfair but maybe it isn't?
3. In my opinion the polish system is way better because here every vote counts, but in USA if your opponent's candidate wins in your state, your vote doesn't matter.
What do you think about the Electors system in the US?
On first sight, it doesn't seem fair. This system has very long history in the US and I guess that they don't want to create more chaos than its needed. I could only imagine, how many controversies it would cause, taking into account pandemic not only of COVID-19 but also miss-information.
Does it a democratic country after all?
It depends on the definition of democratic (voting system).
As one of my previous speakers on the blog, has precisly stated:
election should be:
- general
- equal
- direct
- and voted by secret ballot.
It's clear that some of these requirements aren't met or are redefined.
Do you think that the polish system is better than the US one? Why and why not?
Polish system of electing the president, yes. As far as I know it adheres to the rules stated earlier and it is pretty simple. Nevertheless, I'm not so sure about our process of electing deputies. I'd like to deepen my knowledge in this topic and have a reasonable opinion on this.
I think that it's obsolete and anti-democratic.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
It is some form of a democracy, but there are some things that I consider anti-democratic, like electoral system, two-party system or the fact that candidate with fewer votes can win the election.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
While I think that polish system has it's flaws, it is way better than US one, because we don't have two-party system, our constitution isn't that old (although I'd like to see a new one in the future) and in our system every vote counts.
I think this system is quite confusing and might seem unfair but there is always some logic behind any system.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
This concept of democratic countries is a scam politicians use to make us feel better but it's hard to find a really democratic country there are always some flaws in every political system.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
Unfortunately, I don’t know how the polish system works but I will do some research on in.
I think it has nothing in common with democracy.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
I don't think that USA is a democratic country. This coutry is ruled by the money, billionaires are lobbying every elections using fake organizations, votes from different states has different weight and there are only two huge partys (other partys doesn't have any voice). I don't even mention that not every people can vote, gerrymandering etc.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
I think polish system is better, but it doesn't mean that it's perfect. US system maybe was fair in 1776 but it hasn't change over the years with growing up of the USA and whole world.
I dont like this system. For sure it isnt fair and the electors number is not corresponding enought to the value of citizens in particular state.
2.Does it a democratic country after all?
I wouldnt call it democracy, because in democratic vote most choose the president and in this case it not necessary must be the truth (most can loose).
3.Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
Im also dont considere polish system as best, it is not, but it, for me, has more senes that american one.
2. This question makes no sense. The US electoral system is strange and complicated, but still democratic.
3. Poland and the USA are two completely different countries. The electoral system is not suitable for Poland. The Polish system is much simpler and more transparent. In my opinion, the US electoral system is outdated and now the Polish one is better.
Second question does makes sense. This question needs a deeper consideration. I asked about it because I wanted to get answers why do you think so. I found few articles that said Americans system is kind a republic rather than democratic. So I was just curious about your opinions. But thanks for your answer :)
No system is perfect, but in my opinion, the Electors system is currently the best. Due to the appropriate proportion of elctors to the population in a given state, this system is fairer.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
It is definitely a democratic country. It uses indirect democracy, which is not popular in Europe.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
Yes, I do. The US system is better because larger states have a proportionate impact on the election result regardless of the turnout.
2.I’m laughing when anyone debate about democratic basing on irrelevant events. Everyone how lose starts saying that democratic is over.
3.If we talking about presidential one It is good in my opinion. Parliamentary is pure crime. People are surprised about results of votes. If they even know in what they are taking part.
It's not good system. I think that it's pointless that states has rule the winner takes it all, because the voters that voted diffrently that majority are omitted. It's not fair.
2. Does it a democratic country after all?
Yeah, it's a democracy. The people are choosing after all. Every country has some bizarre voting rules and Poland is not exception.
3. Do you think that polish system is better than US one? Why and why not?
Polsih system of presidental election is better for sure. But our President is not that important as American one. In our country Sejm is the most powerful institution and the election system to it is unfair and too complicated to understand. For example in last elections PiS didn't have majority of votes but somehow they have majority of mandates in Sejm. I tried to figure out why it's like that and I know less because of complexity of this election. It doesn't make sense at all.