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Week 4 [06.11-12.11] – Can we defeat The Reaper?

Recent holiday possibly made everyone think about death. Whether we’re satisfied with our lives or not, whether we believe in supernatural beings like God, we all consider it at some point. But why do we do it? Because we all have to die at some point, don’t we?

Well, I do not think so. I have been thinking about this topic many times before and when I saw that two of my favorite Youtube channels made videos about it I could not stop myself from watching it. Even though I was at work. At a meeting.

The issue is important. Research on longevity is not funded sufficiently because people strongly believe that they have to die, they grew to be friends with the reaper. But it doesn’t have to be like that. We live in an era which allows us to move thousands of kilometers within hours, we managed to land on the moon and successfully keep people alive on the orbit, we can genetically modify mosquitoes not  to transfer disease, and finally - we invented a tool that allows for gene modification in humans. We have to use our knowledge and resources to treat the most dangerous disease there is – ageing.



Share your thoughts. Why do you think people believe that ageing is natural? Why do you think people accept it? What arguments can be used for and against research on longevity?
Bonus:

Comments

Unknown said…
In movies long life often is a problem because you live longer than all people you love. There are too many people in the world. If we want to live longer, we should colonise other planets. Nowadays people earn a lot of money on ill people. People will not start working on longetivity because they will start earning less money. Lifespan is longer than in the past anyways.
Unknown said…
Very informative and insightful as usual, it would have been interesting to mention the environmental cost of extending human life. I like the idea that we would take better care of the planet if we were around for longer, however the resulting increase in consumption would likely be detrimental to an already precarious situation.
Jakub Lisicki said…
Aging is natural and people got used to it. That's how it's been since the beginning of whole human history. No matter, how long people live, we are always scared of when we die, and what comes after that.
Personally, I think that aging is not one of the worst ways to go for ourselves, but it causes pain to people who are close. It's really sad to watch how body and mind of our dearest ones fail over time and that we can't really do anything about it.
For now, there is no other way than just to accept it - it's just inevitable.
I'm all in when it comes to researching the subject, since it's just natural for the human race to evolve and get better in all kind of things, but we can read some sci-fi books about what may happen because of that knowledge. The one book I can really recommend about this topic is "Future" by Dmitry Glukhovsky.
Unknown said…
The idea of immortality is great, just because we could try too many different things during our life or travel around the world, however main religions persuade us this life is a some kind of task, which should be completed by us to get to another better level, where there is no death more. Obviously, many of rich people have been thinking about it for long time and if some scientists invented a way for immortality, no doubt it would be available for few people. Anyway, if it became available widely, the Earth would be overpopulated faster than we expect. As a result a lot of wars, great hunger and total destruction.
This comment has been removed by the author.
When it comes to carbon based life, especially more complex multicellular organisms aging is indeed natural, that's just the way things are. It's also the most probable reason why most people accept it, although there are many that try to cheat it by believing in made-up concepts like religions or immortality through legacy, but these means will perish instantly with the extinction of our species.

There are probably many arguments for and against further work and research on longevity just like with any other invention. Knowing the ways of our civilisation only the handful 1% would enjoy the opportunity of living the long life, while others, well someone has to work and die to provide the means of amassing precious treasures of the few. I for one don't care whether I live forever or die tomorrow, to be honest I would prefer the latter, because death is a part of a adventure that life is and I wouldn't like to miss it.
Unknown said…
I'd love to be able to live as long as I want. Nowadays it feels like there's no way to do all the things you want to do in life before it's too late to do them. What would be more important for me though is staying healthy as I age. I'd rather die than spend half my life hooked up to machines in a hospital bed.
Of course, there is a problem of overpopulation - if people won't die, population will grow much faster. Countries such as India, Uganda, Congo, etc. still have growing populations due to a higher number of children being born surviving through their younger more susceptible years.
Unknown said…
The basic signs of alive being, such as us, humans, and most of the living being in our planet, are: creature is born, it grows, it dies (there are other signs, but let us concentrate on these three). It is what they call "The circle of life". If you are talking about eternal life, will human also grow eternally, become older and older? If he won't, how long it will take for him to come to the stagnation? Eternal life doesn't bring eternal possibilities. The prisons will be filled with life sentenced criminals, the real estate's prices will be enourmous. Sooner or later we will be drowned in chaos and insanity. Eternal life of one person could be the blessing for the whole kind, if it is a decent person, but eternal life of the whole kind is doom.
Unknown said…
I was hoping to convey a point about longevity of the whole species not a single person so the issue shown in the movies does not apply.

I don't believe in the money perspective just because rich people would want to live forever as well and I haven't heard about any immortal billionaires.

Thanks for the comment
Unknown said…
I personally believe that one of the reasons people are having kids is because they want to extend their bloodline. There would be no need for that in an immortal society. Of course population would grow but probably not as fast as you would expect. I agree though, it is an issue we would have to solve.
Unknown said…
I agree, Futu.re is definitely an interesting book and it addresses some issues connected to longevity. Thanks for the comment.
Unknown said…
I would rather take my chances and try to manage the immortal population than ignore the issue and die at some point. I understand your point though.
Unknown said…
I do not agree with your opinion but thanks for the comment anyway.
Unknown said…
Longer lifespan would mean more time for scientists to solve the issue of overpopulation. Thanks for the comment.
Unknown said…
Death is doom in itself. I would rather take my chances and try than perish and be forgotten. Thank you for the comment.
Why do I think people believe that ageing is natural? Probably because it is. It is natural. And that is why we accept it. Because it is natural, and all of our ancestors were experiencing ageing, we know that we are ageing right now. Even if it can be reversed by genetic engineering, it doesn’t mean we are not ageing. It sounds awesome that we can expand out lifespan and reverse ageing, and I can’t really find any downside. However I think that in life of everyone, there will be day when we won’t want to live anymore.
Unknown said…
I wonder, how would longer life affect our sanity? No human have ever lived for 200 or 500 years, so our brain might be not prepared evolutionally for such long life span. Wouldn't people gone mad if they lived for hundreds of years?

Generally, I agree that we should look for a way to stop ageing, diseases and death. The purpose of any life form on Earth is... living. That's why I think trying to lenghten the life of a human is a natural result of progress people made in the field of medicine.
Vyvyan said…
People think that ageing is natural because everything in the world has time when is "usable". Everything is working/living/existing for expected amount of time. Everything can be broken because of something or because of faulty element.
Now a days, our bodies are programmed to work like... 70 - 120 ages. But earlier this time was shorter. Why? Because people don't care about their bodies because they don't know the technology (I mean medicine etc).
If we care about our bodies we live longer. If we don't smoke, our lungs will be healthier, if we will be fit, our heart will work longer. But we can care about our body whole life and we will be dead, but later (optimistic, huh?).
From the psychological point of view, long of life shouldn't be infinitive. Why? Because we would be tired of living. Being dead is natural. We just have to learn how to spend our time the best we can.
Maciej Główka said…
I think we should not increase our life length. At least not now, when we are starting facing overpopulation problem on our planet. In my opinion people think ageing is natural because that's how the world is build. Everything has it's "usable" time, so why people should be different? To be honest, I'm really interested in how much we can extend our life in natural ways. If we compare todays life length expectancy and one from 100 years ago, we see significant progress. Who knows what it will be in 100 years.
Unknown said…
Dying of pneumonia is natural but I personally don't miss it at all. Thanks for the comment.
Unknown said…
It is funny how people think that people would get bored of living but somehow whenever you ask an old person if they would like to be young and live longer they all say yes without second thought.
Even if one day we'll succeed in prolonging the lives of our bodies indefinitely, the more interesting question raised in the video is one of mental ageing.

So far it hasn't been a problem we've had to tackle with, but one day we might have to. How long is too long? What if at some point a person grown weary of this whole living malarkey? Do we handle it as we do people with depression? Or do we consider such a person an euthanasia candidate? What if a person decides, that it's seen to much death, to much war, suffered to much trauma to process? None of these cases is new. We've seen this in the pass with war combatants unable to return to normal life. Back then we tried to help them since they were mostly 30 year old men, with most of their lives still ahead of them. But how will we treat a 300 year old person with the same condition?
*too much
*too much
*too much
*are new
*in the past
Unknown said…
If we eliminate ageing there is a number of issues to deal with. Overpopulation is first thing that comes to mind. Other thing would be if you knew your time is unlimited would you consider time as precious? As it is now we are all going to die, sooner or later and it makes most of our time scarce thus precious. How would it affect our social, enviromental, economic life and society as a whole? Hard to tell. Sounds wonderful to live as long as you want though, ever young and healthy. In conjuction with space travel it's a interesting perspective.
Great choice of channels, kurzgesagt and cgp grey are my fav.
Unknown said…
How did you guess? I really thought about it on holidays.
But I wouldn't want to live forever. People's bodies become more and more worn down, weak, old. Even if mind still ok. Yes, I know some old people who can swim, run, who enjoy their lives. But their bodies are not young. And also people become tired with their lives, with a lot of stress, problems and so on. Maybe it's good that there's something like death.
Btw, the second video is so beautiful, I like the colors. Thank you for sharing.
From the oldest days when average lifespan of humans was shorter than now we were connecting old age with wiseness - oldest warriors were considered the wisest and greatest because they survived longer than others. Come religions and longevity became part of attributes given out by a “God’s” hand believing that only they could be immortal. Attribute of immortality became part of arcana and we got used to it. Nothing is permanent as we are used to say since all of the things surrounding us are under constant change then so we should. Longevity, expanding our lives can be trouble some not only it would promote those who have the most money as the ones to be the ”Chosen one” but it would also mean we would value our lives , days we spend on earth less. Would u keep your eyes if u would have seen everything? They would become unimportant u dont need them anymore, if we were able to live longer would we care as much about singular moments as we do now ? depending on a amount of life expanded but i doubt we would so.
On the other hand if we were able to do so sometimes woe would expand upon our projects, dreams or just simply thoughts.
Unknown said…
I don't know what to say about eternal living, but I can't deny, that i would definitely like not to age. All the examples in nature show, that everything has it's life cycle and there is no logic in living forever young until the death, but I wish it would be possible. It also would be a reason why people will stop evaluating each other considering their age. There would be no age limits - "you are too old for that", no judging - "people of your age shouldn't behave this way", no discrimination.. Who cares how old are you if you look the same for years? If you are strong and healthy? Sometimes I can't believe that my parents are aging, it is so sad, that I can't stand that. If they could be young and healthy, I will accept the fact that they won't live forever. But I can't find the arguments for physical aging and age deceases.
Zygmunt Z said…
Why ageing is natural? Simply, because. It was, is and will be natural. We all see from one year to another that we change, we grow, we get older and it is not something new. The idea of reverse ageing doesn’t apply to me. We all have one life and the way we live it is totally up to us. Every hour hurts us, the last one kills us. I don’t think there is a person that would love to live an “expanded life” or eternal one. With all our problems and experience we have gained through years, we may want to die anyway at some point.
Unknown said…
Please don't think that I don't like my life or something like that but I think that a immortality would be a something like a penalty. I want to live as long as it is possible and what is more imporant for me - I want a long life for people who I love and care about them. We should remember that life is not a rollercoaster of love, happiness and peace. We should work to make our life happy and has a sense.

Of course, it is not fine whan young person die because of any reason. It is not fine when somebody who is very important for us died. It is very hard to deal with such situation in our life but you now what? We have to. We can live 10-20 years longer because of humanity progress but we still can be killed by somebody or can died in car accident.

I think that opinion in this videos are a bit naive. Do you know who would have access to immoratality? Politicians or very rich people. I think that is nice that it is one aspect in our life which nobody can buy.

Another funny thing was a fact that author of first video was surprised why people try to understand death and they try to find some explanation of it e.g a faith or God.
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
You stated that
>We live in an era which allows us to move thousands of kilometers within hours, we managed to land on the moon and successfully keep people alive on the orbit [...]
Yes, its all true, but consider the following:
-We remember having first phone with color screen
-Our parents remember having the first PC, or even some game console clone
-Our grandparents may remember the WW2, with glass syringes and propeller aircrafts.
In just as little as 70 years, we have managed to jump from wood, glass and steel, materials that were used for hundreds of years (plastic is quite new when you look at it from this point), to jet planes and space exploration.
In 1950-1955, life expectancy was about 65-67 years, now its about to hit 80. Now here is the real deal - We have hit the "natural barrier of life" and we can't extend it simply by raising life standard (i.e more healthcare, eradicating diseases etc.).
We have to come up with the solution made EXACTLY for the sake of extending human life, and that requires a lot more research than just "build more hospitals, give people healthy diets + some vaccines and don't send them to dig up coal with pickaxes", it requires some heavy genetic modifications, and that in turn requires public consent, both ethically and medically.
People don't want to talk about death because it was always a taboo- "How am i supposed to just close my eyes for the last time and never wake up? What's next? Is there anything else or what?". Death is something very abstract for every human being, as it constitutes the end of everything, of "us" and for the last thousands of years, we couldn't do anything to stop or avoid it, so we have nothing else to do, but accept it, that's why people consider it a natural process.
Personally I also think that immortality would be more of a penalty. Life is supposed to have a starting point and ending point, you have fixed amount of time in which you can achieve or try to achieve anything you want to, from simple daily objectives, through your career, family and science. Even if we were capable of stopping the aging process, I'm not sure if I wanted to try it out personally, I mean I probably would for a while or so, but definitely not for eternity, as I'm not afraid of death and I know that it will come sooner or later - the key thing to do is live like it'd be the last day of your life, every day. Never regret, never hold grudges, never look back. Be prepared for the worst one, and then nothing will be capable of shocking you.

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