Polish rifle of the future - MSBS
Even though AK system is one of the best and most recognizable firearms systems, it’s still
over 70 years old construction and frontline soldiers’ weapons must evolve parallel to the
everything other in the armies of the world. And from this the idea to create new weapon for
Polish soldiers was born.
over 70 years old construction and frontline soldiers’ weapons must evolve parallel to the
everything other in the armies of the world. And from this the idea to create new weapon for
Polish soldiers was born.
Between 2003 and 2006 there was research to create weapon to change different AK-based
firearms with only one modern rifle. Its development started in 2007 at the WAT University in
Warsaw and now is included in the future soldier “Titan” personal fight system project. Its
official short name is MSBS-5,56, but army named it Grot (arrowhead) to honor the AK
general Stefan Rowecki. Weapon itself is produced by Fabryka Broni “Łucznik” in Radom.
firearms with only one modern rifle. Its development started in 2007 at the WAT University in
Warsaw and now is included in the future soldier “Titan” personal fight system project. Its
official short name is MSBS-5,56, but army named it Grot (arrowhead) to honor the AK
general Stefan Rowecki. Weapon itself is produced by Fabryka Broni “Łucznik” in Radom.
Two variants of MSBS – above B (bullpup) and below K (classic)
The gun by itself is designed to be not only an assault rifle, but to become new Polish Armed
Forces standard weapon platform with five variants. Alongside mentioned version, there will
be submachine, light machine gun, carabine as well as the designated marksman rifle. Its main
design is based on the standard 5.56mm NATO cartridge, but there is more powerful 7.62mm
NATO variant in production.
One of the greatest benefit to change from the different weapons to one unified weapon system
is the need to hold fewer spare parts for the several different guns types. Additionally, gun allows
to switch ejection side with just only parts kit and both versions – bullpup and conventional – share
much more than half of their parts.
is the need to hold fewer spare parts for the several different guns types. Additionally, gun allows
to switch ejection side with just only parts kit and both versions – bullpup and conventional – share
much more than half of their parts.
There are already nearly thousand from ordered 53 thousand examples of Grot’s are already
in service in Polish Army, and there is potential for other nations to replace their deprecated
weapons. Namely Estonia – neighbor of Russia – Sweden and there are some rumors about
Portugal interested in acquiring those guns.
in service in Polish Army, and there is potential for other nations to replace their deprecated
weapons. Namely Estonia – neighbor of Russia – Sweden and there are some rumors about
Portugal interested in acquiring those guns.
MSBS-B fieldstripped
First batch of civilian version – designated as a S16 FB-M1 – was shipped to distributors in
Europe in April of this year. First 100 produced rifles are limited edition version, engraved with
special anniversary laser markings. It’s already 100 years, when Poland regained independence
after the First World War.
Europe in April of this year. First 100 produced rifles are limited edition version, engraved with
special anniversary laser markings. It’s already 100 years, when Poland regained independence
after the First World War.
Civilian version of MSBS, the S16 FB-M1
External sources:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSBS_rifle and https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabinek_MSBS
The Firearm Blog: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/04/11/civilian-msbs-grot-hits-the-european-market/
- What do you think of replacing old and tested by many AK platform to new Polish-made rifle?
- Do you think replacement is made mainly because the economic reasons or the patriotism?
- Have you ever shot a gun in a fire range? If yes, than what is your experience?
Comments
I think this decision was done mostly based on economic profits but I am also sure that Poland would not miss the opportunity to produce its own rifle to show a potential of polish weapon's production.
No, I have not.
2. It’ hard to take patriotism out of equation when talking about military but it is certainly crucial that spare parts are being made inside Poland. Otherwise country that provides those parts may have a leverage in political conflicts.
3. No I haven’t had occasion to do so. I’ll try some day for sure though.
It may be both reasons because it always takes many factors to make a decision involving such a big topic as the military.
I have tried shooting once. It was a very interesting experience, although it was much harder than I initially expected. I managed to hit the target most of the times but it was far from the middle of the circle.
For any reason, this replacement should be a good result.
have never had any interest in firing or working with guns.
I think it's a good idea. As far as I know, AK47 isn’t unreliable, but it's time for a new weapon. This type of investment will give new jobs and influence the Polish economy. I have never used a real gun. There are shooting ranges near my house and I have to go there. I have never been passionate about weapon but the fact is weapons are nice.
2. Replacement is made because of strategic reasons. Current AK rifle is not sufficient for warfare with technologies that our potential enemies poses.
3. Yes I did shoot with rifle on a fire range. I enjoyed it and would like to do it more often, however it’s a bit too pricey hobby for me.
What do you think of replacing old and tested by many AK platform to new Polish-made rifle?
To be honest, I don't know a whole lot about guns and military equipment up-to-date standards over the world. I can only suppose that given that MSBS is a new project, it is safer from the national security point of view, as our potential enemies during wartime may have problems with countering the strategy based on unknown equpiment - if we continued to use AK47, the machine is well-known and it is easier to prepare against a known enemy, than an unkown one.
Do you think replacement is made mainly because the economic reasons or the patriotism?
I think in great deal it is about patriotism, but also national security. When it comes to energy, basic food and army, a nation should have some reserves in order to be self-sufficient should a war ensue.
Have you ever shot a gun in a fire range? If yes, than what is your experience?
Yes, I have. I remember that I found it much more difficult than I initially suspected. I guess you need a lot of training in order to shoot accurately.
I think that the new rifles are developed to suit modern warfare conditions. We can't rely on the old ones when the new and better ones ale already in use by many countries. I don't think that AK's price is so high that it could be the main reason behind developing these.
I have never shot a gun in my life, but I would like to. I think it wouldn't be as pleasant as I imagine, but I still think it's worth trying out.
There may be many reasons. I think that these are economic reasons, because the change to new weapons is money and maybe that's what it's about, it's hard for me to write something here.
I once shot a few times at the shooting range and nothing more.
I believe the army should be equipped efficiently and reasonably, meaning that there are probably lots of formal regulations and considerations, like expenses, to take into account before making a decision 'let's modernize our army'. Highly likely there are people who analyze it regularly and I trust they make right choices.
I think I have no data and no experience how the decision making process works, so I can't answer.
I went once to the shooting range and tried different weapons, it was fun.
We have to remember why the AK platform was so popular:
-it was simple
- cheap to make
- cheap and easy to maintain
- ultimately reliable
- cheap and easy to mod
So while we make a new platform we have to understand a core components, core characteristics that made AK so popular.
I think the replacement is due anyway, and economic reasons come to mind as a second though. We need to realize that any reliable platform manufactured locally will have superior popularity than an imported one, and that it will be a good step forward anyway.
Ive shot some guns mostly automatic and semi automatic pistols and some old fashioned replicas. If i got the gun i would know how to handle guns, accuracy ye thats another story.
In my opinion, modernization is alvays good, because of progress of techonology in last 70 years, but there is a thing that bothers me. Why in piece time we still invest in weapons, when we can invest in colonizing Mars, or alternative energy? But it is more philosophical question, and not related to topic.
Do you think replacement is made mainly because the economic reasons or the patriotism?
I think, that upgrade is made because of mix of economic and patriotic ideas. And it's good, when country can manufacture defense by itself.
Have you ever shot a gun in a fire range? If yes, than what is your experience?
No, I don't, beacause weapons werenever in my field of interest.
Both. As a nation, we should show our potential and help our companies. Of course, we should not do it when the quality of our products would be worse, but if it's similar, I think we should use ours.
Yes, I have. Only once yet, but I'm going to do it again this year! It was a tremendous experience, almost life-changing. Realizing and feeling that small movement of your finger can take somebody's life was unusual. It showed me a presence in a different perspective. I recommend trying this experience to everyone. I know it feels expensive, but I'm sure you won't regret spending that money!
As for the MSBS in the range - I will inform you if I would find it somewhere.
I think replacement is made because of pure economic reasons I am not really sure if high ranked people would change something because of patriotism.I haven't got possibility to shot a real gun , but in near future I definiatelly would. As a kid I was on a shooting range with airguns, it is called sport shooting and for me it was boring as hell and I quit after one training of course I wanted something more like riffles or pistols but I was too young for that.
I think it will be good for army itself, modern world is upgrading every day and army equipment is one of the biggest in this case. of course old and trustful is good, but you should catch up with the world anyway.
I think both and i think both reasons are equally good. I think it is good for economics to use something, not only guns, that is produced in your country , and patriotism reason also, it is one of the biggest thing that "feeds" an army.
2. I guess it mainly economy that is on our mind but also you can invent somethink even better. On the other hand i think it also goes with just upgrading old rifles to new ones as everything that is old is going to breake sooner or later.
3.Yeah but just a gun, couldnt put my hand or a rifle but i think that would be much fun.
About replacing: why not? If this rifle works better and has more features, then replacing is just a development. And i dont think that reason for replacement is patriotism. I guess when it comes to profit and economic, politicians dont have any feelings.