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Week 6 [20-26.11.17] The poetry of programming

Have you ever heard about Linda Liukas? She is a programmer, storyteller and illustrator. She wrote a children's book, Hello Ruby which raised total of $380,000 on Kickstarter. She is involve in promotion of programming and she also tries to engage womens to start programming organising such great event as Rails Girls. She is concious that we are surrounded by computers in our world and we should learn people programming because we need creators which will be changing our reality.


What I think it is awesome in her attitude is a way how she speaks about a programming. It is easy to understand that she loves coding and when I was watching her speach I feel the same. Please watch this speach and answer for questions wchich are on the bottom of my article. I feel that her look at the world will has positive influance on us because most of us are a programmers.




1. Do you agree with her opinion that a code can be treat as a today's poetry?
2. What do you think about her opinion that we shouldn't wait and teach children programming as soon as possible? Do you want teach your children a programming or do you think that a coding world is not so magical as Linda said and there is no rush to start a programming.
3. What do you think about her Rails Girls organization which helps more than 10000 women to start a programming?

Thank you very much for your attention. I hope that at least that Linda attitude makes your day better and gives you a positive energy.

Comments

Programming is one of the best work you can do right now. It's very popular and in contrast with jobs related to law or finances, there is a trend to make this job as cool as it can be. There is a lot of companies that tries to be like Google and gives things like chill-out rooms, free food, free gym etc. to their employees. Result of that trend is that a lot of people from IT, especially programmers, thinks that their are better than others. A lot of them thinks about themselves that they are artists. When it comes to me, I hate this trend. I'm a programmer myself, but I never think about myself as a Steve Jobs or Da Vinci. I think that in future, when coding will be more popular and programmers will not be such treasure as they are now, all this "poetry of programming" talking will stop.

I don't think that programming is the most important in life and everyone should learn it. Funny thing is a fact that most of programmers that talk how much programming is important have a very little knowledge of geography, medicine, history, poetry etc. In Poland computer science classes are really bad so my opinion look like this: if it would be possible to have good cs classes where kids would be able to learn basics of programming instead of MS office. That would probably do the thing. Also despite programming, some classes could be related with algorithms, IT security etc. I know it's quite hard to find someone that is good at programming and will teach kids instead of being high paid programmer, but it's 21 century, so CS classes could be done online by using Khan Academy or Udemy.

"Rails Girls", hmm... As I said it's 21 century so if you are living in normal country, there is no problem with doing what you want and be women or gay or black etc. at the same moment. That's why I do not like campaigns like "Rails Girls" - is it good plan to promote openness while being some kind of racist at the same time? The main factor that should be consider while making recruiting process is knowledge. I do not have problem if some company consist of only white males for example, assuming that they were the best at the recruiting process. On the other hand, every try of expending knowledge, is a good try.
Anonymous said…
I totally disagree that code could be treat as poetry. Those two things have nothing in common. Code isn't any kind of art and poetry isn't any kind of machine commands.
I think I would try to teach my child programming. Actually I would like to show my child as many opportunities as possible so that in the future he or she wouldn't have a problem what to do in life. On the other hand not everyone has to be programmers.
I think such organizations as Rails Girls are quite a good idea. There are a lot of women who would like to learn programming but for example are afraid of IT studies or something like that.
Unknown said…
I also know people who are programmers and they are vain what can be really annoying when you have to work with them. I think that we shouldn't generalize because such behavior depends more on people nature than their job.

I think that you understand this presentation in different way than me. I am also not feel as an artist or a poet but a programming gives me a lot of satisfaction and when I code I like a power that I am able to create something which will be used by people and what can makes their life a bit easier.

Of course that programming is not the most important thing in a life but on the other hand we should be concious that now and maybe even more in the future such ability will be very demand by employers.

You are right that companies should hire people not because of their race or sex but only because of their abilities and personal skills. I think that "Rails Girls" is a good occasion to learn something and maybe their organized presentations in the way which will be more interesting for girls than for mens. I hope that if somebody organize a such meeting only for mens, nobody will have any objections.
Unknown said…
Sylwia, thank you for your response. I think that 'poetry' of programming is kind a metaphor but in my opinion when you read a really good quality code you can read it easily like a book. I think that a code can speaks some story and I sometimes feel it and maybe it is reason why I understand Linda Liukas's optimism when she speaks about coding.
Andrzej Gulak said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
Thank you for your response. I agree with you that not everybody should be a programmer but we also should be conscious that in the future we will need more and more people who know how to program because nowadays most things which surround us needed somebody who programmed them. I know that this job is not for everybody. For me programming is very exciting but I know that for a lot of people it is simply boring.
Unknown said…
I completely agree with Linda's opinion that a code can be treat as a today's poetry. As a programmer I often find myself comparing classes to book pages or packages to chapters. Code gives you a lot of flexibility and the only thing wich stops you from creating amazing things is your imagination - just like poetry. Moving on, we can't be all programmers obviously, but coding is very powerful tool for world creation in days to come. Therefore, introducing abstract programming patterns based on simple and fun examples in the early days of our children seems like right thing to do. We just need to remember that it have to be kid's decision to continue learning or not, we can't force anyone to do something, because nothing good will be created in this way. I find Rails Girls as a great help for woman to start programming. Linda seems to be infantile and that may be a good approach for young girls, because it is easier to understand something new in the way you think each and every day. I didn't know about this one and I really enjoyed it, so thanks for this great video.
Well it's hard to say. But when i saw some legacy projects written in "spaghetti" style and new systems written in this good and clean way i can say that writing good code is not that easy. But treating it as a poetry is a bit too much for me. Yes, definitely we should teach children programming because it helps at abstract and logical thinking. I would personally teach my children programming for sure, at least I would try. If it's true what Rails Girls did for these women then i think it was precious behavior.
Unknown said…
You are welcome. I am glad that you have similar opinion to my own and you treat a programming like very important part of your life. Sometimes I feel bad on our academy when most of our students don't really like programming so it is really nice to hear something like that from you. :)
Unknown said…
I have similar opinion that programming really develop logical thinking so the same as you I would try to teach my children how to code. I wouldn't force them but I would give them such an opportunity.
Filip Sawicki said…
For me programming indeed is an art and it has a similar meaning to one with poetry. Art in a context of programming is a metaphor of clean and intuitive scripts written with good programming practices and simple syntax. It is easy to write a working program, but it is an art if one wants to make it maintainable, efficient, safe and reliable.
I don’t think that we should hurry with teaching children programming. It should come naturally through well-thought student’s curriculum. I do opt for more IT lessons in schools, however there should be no obligation for everybody to learn advanced programming.
I like to believe that code is more than poetry. With code just like with poetry you can create whatever you like and there are endless possibilities of achieving that goal. However in the end its not only a word on paper, an imagined world - you’ve build something! That’s why I think ability to code is the closest thing we have to superpowers.
Yevhen Shymko said…
I really love the passion Linda is talking with. Gameification of programming seems as a good idea until you think that it might not be for everybody. Actually it is not for a lot of people. And when thous kids will realize that it is not thet fun as they thought it would be they might be quite disappointed in there lifes. On the other hand you never know what is you think until you try and teaching kids how to use computer and simple programs is okay but may be with a consciousness.
Foodocado said…
I do agree with the speaker - code might be treated as a poetry. I like when the code is written clean and easy to read. The passion in Lindas voice when she speaks about programming is insane. I believe, every child should learn how to code. It's a good way to improve logical thinking, math or even imagination Also more and more professions require this kind of knowlage. I like the idea of "Rail girls". It seems to be a good opportunity to promote programming.
sasha | s14611 said…
I agree that code can be treated as today's poetry, but only for people who understand it. Because people who don't know anything about programming can't find beauty of really clean and well structured code :)
And what about teaching children from as soon as possible, I don't think that it's good idea. We should teach children to understand things, teach them how to think in programming way and after that we can teach them programming.
Wojtek Protasik said…
Everybody can see programming in a different way. I've already heard some people referring to it as an art. I believe there is no need to enforce ones vision but rather everyone should find a path in a technology world.

I would like to show my children many things. Programming would be one of them, but there is no valid point to make them do it. It should be out of their own will. If they choose it, fine. I'll be there to help.

I think Rails Girls is a product of today's modern ideas mixed with a bit of political correctness. I'm pretty sure many women choose it depending on a bias. I wonder what they would do if they were offered a solid IT studies as one option and Rails Girls as the other?


Vladlen Kyselov said…
Coding is a poetry for sure, for me its like a new genre of literature. Unfortunately developers without understanding of
necessity of writing clean and structured code spoil this genre of literature.
To my mind in our society and modern world it is necessary to teach kids coding from early years, because understanding in programming comes with the time and hard work.
I can agree with shes opinion, that coding can be treat as poetry. If we treat as a way to express our fillings, like she did with the website. I'm very positive about programming, myself I can't be a good programmer, because learning is not the issue here. If I would have kids one day I would like to send them to programming classes as soon as posible, I hope they would like it, because I would not force them if they would not want to. Programming is open for every one, so the Rails Girls project is more like a political correctness thing, but on the other hand if it's working, I think it's okay then.
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
In my opinion code can be treated as today’s poetry to some extent. Writing concise, testable, effective and readable code is actually an art, and from my experience, not many programmers can do it, although many of them claim they can :) . In the not too distant future basic programming skills will be a prerequisite for further education as reading and writing currently are. Taking above into consideration, I totally agree with Linda’s viewpoint that we should acquaint children with programming from an early age. I consider Linda’s Rails Girls organization and other such initiatives as great ideas worth spreading all over the world. They encourage girls and women to try programming and enter IT world which is still perceived as men’s field.
Unknown said…
It's amazing that people who have abilities both to Computer Science and Art combine it in their professions. Photographers should not only know about perspective, compositions, etc, but also technical side of the photography. Web-designers should have not only knowledge about HTML, PHP, but about colors and compositions too. 3D artists, illustrators and other. That's cool.
I'm not sure if we should teach children coding. Maybe it'd be good to add some coding classes, but it's not necessary to make them mandatory. Not all people like coding. And, for example, one person likes programming in Java, But another one likes PHP. They both like programming, but the languages are different. And they could not like to code in another language. So, it's complicated.
Maciej Główka said…
I agree 100% with her opinion that a code can be treat as a today's poetry. I've seen awful and beautiful code in my life, that's why I agree with her. Very good code can be read like a book. In fact, if something is written very good, I think that even normal person, who knows nothing about coding, can understand it.
Yes, I want to teach my children programming. There are many languages created just for that purpose, they make programming enjoyable even for kids. In my opinion, nowadays, where we are surrounded by computers, basic skills of programming is a must have.
I think that every organisation, that helps people understand programming, is a great idea worth spreading all over the world.
Unknown said…
Unfortunately, I do not understand what programming and poetry have in common... According to me, programming is giving commands to a computer. Here are rules that we should not break.
Poetry is an art, a place for imagination. Everything here is allowed.
There should be more programming in the high school. It seems to me that these classes are currently only available in information technology classes. The system of computer science in schools should be modernized.
I think her organization is great. Not many women are progmists.
It seems to me that it not a problem with skills and understand the code, but the wrong assumption that it's work only for men.
Marcin Górski said…
I don't agree with her that code is like poetry. Programming and poetry are two different things for me.
I think that we should teach children basic computer skills. Our life based on computers and that's why we should show something them.
In my opinion, we shouldn't impose anything. Everybody has own life we can't decide for someone. It isn't said that everybody has to be programmer.
Unknown said…
Woah dude, I don't know what is she taking but I want some too :P
They way she speaks and exaplains things shows that she likes programming and teaching it. Passing on the knowledge, sharing it. Code as a poetry? Well, there is something about well written, elegant piece of code, can't deny that. A simple perfect solution written in a chain of symbols each one having a certain meaning and which cannot work without the other doing its magic behind your eyes or growing worldwide. It's about the magic. ye.
I think it's a great idea to start teaching children programming as soon as possible. Firstly because of nowadays and future demand for such skills but also it fun a great way to induce creativity. Dunno about Rails Girls, I've once ran into one of their python tutorial or something and it was fine. Was surprised that there's such a thing as RailsGirls.
Unknown said…
Actually, I am not ready to put traditional poetry and code poetry on the same place. However, many people claim that it's the same and it can be understantable for few people.
Programming became to play an important role and people, who really do it great can find good job with high salary. Of course, I wouldn't force my children to learn it, if they don't want. Some of us, like me, has interest to it without making and persuading us to learn it.
I reckon this organisation will help thousands of women to start programming even though they're probably from less developed countries or a few of them are just afraid of sexual discrimination at work because of stereotypes.
Zygmunt Z said…
I don’t think that code can be treated as poetry or some sort of art. It is a form of work which has to help us humans in everyday life while poetry is here to entertain us not forget to mention that art in general should not have any purpose in our life – it just is and we comprehend it. Programming generally can be entertaining but I can’t agree that code is today’s poetry. I agree that we should start learning our children to program because it is a very useful skill and it will be more and more required every year. There is this opinion among few that people like technology and everything about it but they don’t understand it – the ability to program would really help them in that. I think that organisations like Rails Girls which are addressed to one particular group of people are overhyped. If you like what you are doing and you are passionate about it and you really want to develop yourself, you don’t have to join any of them.
Magdalena Popek said…
I don't agree that code can be treated as poetry but maybe I'm just not into coding so much. I will definitely teach my children to code, but not just for the sake of coding. Coding teaches to think logically and I think this is even more important than coding itself. What is more I think it's important to be aware of how programs and applications work as they will be more and more important part of our life.
I think organizations like Rail Girls are important as there are still people who perceive coding as "masculine" and can't imagine women doing it. I think in Poland there is no problem in being a woman programmer or learning to code, but there are still countries where the situation of coding women is not so bright.
Unknown said…
I understand your point of view. For some people such opinion about programming is too much but not for me. Nice to meet such people who have the same feelings about coding like me! :)
Unknown said…
It is true that we are limited by these days technology and computers possibilities but I think that in fact it is not much. We are conscious about some limits and we know how to live with them. I feel that Linda compare programming and poetry because of world creation possibilities both as a poet and a programmer.
Unknown said…
Haha. I think that she has a really true passion to programming but you are right that for some people she looks like she had a bit too much endorphin in her body. :P
Unknown said…
In fact I have never heard any opinion that women shouldn't be a programmer. For me I don't have any problems with it but I don't like opinion that companies should hire 50% womens and 50% mens. I think that companies should hire specialists and sex is not important. :) Where womens have problems with beeing a programmers?
Unknown said…
Code as a poetry? Well, that's concept is strange for me. Code is made for doing job and poetry is made for cultural purposes. I'm not buying this.
As for the programming teaching in young age... Yes, this is good concept, because it will give children better start when solving problems. This is why the (programming) code is made for. And my future kid(s) will be learning it.

And for the final question:
'3. What do you think about her Rails Girls organization which helps more than 10000 women to start a programming?'
Well, if she enjoys it and those women find it useful and/or helpful, then it's OK, but if it's forcing for some kind of a sick 'there should be same number of female coders as the male coders, hurr, durr' than I'm against it. Forced labor or study is dangerously close to German concentration camps.
Wojtek Kania said…
Well code may be treated as poetry, but only if it is well done. I think children should learn programming because programming opens new horizons. I support such of projects. Everyone should try coding, even girls :) (that was just a joke)
I think it depends upon person. I'm programmer myself and I agree that a code that I'm improving since 2-3 years already kinda became a work of art and I'm happy to share it with other people because it's not just set of functions wrote in order to tell computer what to do, but carefully designed and developed. If games can be work of art, then I don't see how code itself can't be - especially because it's common thing to see e.g. cars as work of art, and it's even lower level than writing code itself.

Rails Girls is good initiative as it is, but I don't like how they're acting like it'd be something unusual to find women programming. It's job for everybody, regardless of gender, we don't really need to promote programming to people that don't like it. This is also why I do plan to teach my kids programming, but I won't force them to go this way if it won't be interesting for them. I personally see writing code as a lot of fun and this is what keeps myself motivated to continue doing so. If it felt like a work where I'm not achieving anything, I'd probably not feel like doing it anymore.
Unknown said…
I disagree that programming can be treated as today's poetry. Programming doesn't deliver any emotions to other people. You can admire how the code is written but it doesn't make you sad, happy or whatever. Maybe robots will use programming as a poetry to share their emotions with other robots. Who knows.

First of all, we shouldn't force kids to learn programming. We should show them how computers work, what you can do with programming and then if they like it it's ok, we can teach them. Otherwise it would destroy the best thing in programming, it would destroy the fun.

I think that any kind of support connected to coding is great. Sometimes women feel more confident when they work with other women and Rail Girls organisation gives an opportunity to do that. I just wonder what's wrong with IT guys that women don't want to learn/code with them and need to create the organisations like Rail Girls which, in my opinion, isolates women and men even more.
Alicja said…
I appreciate her passion for what she does.

Mathematics and poetry are said to have a lot in common; patterns, symbols and symmetry. I think we could draw a similar parallel between programming and poetry.

It is beneficial to enable children to explore as many options as possible so that they can choose what they enjoy best and develop their interests. I wouldn't worry about when to start teaching them programming. If a child shows interest in it (and we could expose them to programming in many ways at different stages of childhood), there should be no age limit.

I have heard about Rails Girls. There is also a similar initiative called LinuxChix. Personally, I have never felt a need to participate in it.
Unknown said…
Firstly i want to say that i totally fall in love with her! She is so amazing!!!
But really i'm not sure about it if programming is like poetry. I see similar things but in my opinion it's not the same. In poetry you should think about various ideologies, in proggraming only about code.
I think that it's good idea to start teach children about programing and coding cause it can be a great fun for them and they can feel that they understand the world of computers like say Linda. It's important for them.
Rails Girls it's amazing idea. Womans are afraid about coding because it was always a profasion for mans. It was a barrier for them. But thanks to people like Linda it is changing now. It's important for me because i am a girl and i like support like this.
Unknown said…
Thank you all for your attention and that you took part in conversation in my presentation. I hope that I show you something what was interesting and it wasn't a waste of time for you. I was a great pleassure to moderate it and I hope that you enjoyed a topic. :)
Fully agree with the statement above and can add that coding is a kind of freestyle (old poetry).
And I disagree about the children. I would say, they must learn what "critical thinking" means, how to add numbers on a paper sheet and after that, programming will be easier.
I think her organization is amazing idea, so after 10 years, more women will code
KamilG said…
I like Linda's expression that a code can be treated as a today's poetry, in fact, more and more people are programming. Even people that works in Excel they are programming. I'm a programmer and I started experiments with code when I was 10 or 11, so I don't agree with the theory that sooner better. Childhood should be the time of joy and freedom, of course if my child wanted to learn programming as little kid, I would encourage him/her, but nothing by force. I strongly support Rails Girls organization because I feel that women with their distinct minds could make revolutions in the code world and lead to invent great things :)
Tomasz Morawski said…
Difficult to answer, since I believe programming is mostly craftsmanship but sometimes I see solutions of the problems that literally make me smile because of the unusual way of solving. Also, reading bad code make me angry.
I don't think we should force kids to learn programming but I may be useful experience in the future. I'd treat it like another subject at school - you don't have to know what's calcium but there are times it may be handy.
It's nice that she helps other people and that's all. I don't think you really need to found an organization to encourage people to learn something.

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