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Week 5 [13-19.11.17] Was Machiavelli right?

If you ask anybody about what makes a strong and good relationship, you will often hear: “trust it is!”. It’s hard to disagree with that statement, isn’t it? Regardless of what we are talking about, is it a relationship between an employee and his employer, between two companies or between husband and wife, it would be impossible to cooperate without trust. If there was no trust between, let’s say, a boss and an employee, the employee would probably never get any assignment or, even better, would never be employed in the first place.

That sounds obvious but are things really that simple? While I agree, that trust is essential in establishing any kind of rapport, I strongly believe, there is another factor that is equally or even more crucial. Actually, it is the trust’s evil twin – distrust.

At first it might feel a bit weird, because you may think “how can trust be equally important as distrust? If you trust somebody, you cannot distrust him at the same time!”. Well, I believe you can.

Let’s look at the human nature. Are people naturally good or bad? If all people were good and virtuous, then we could trust anybody. If all people were false and selfish, then we would trust nobody. Simple enough. Too bad the world isn’t that simple. Some people are trustworthy, some are not. In that case, isn’t it better to distrust all people by default? If you don’t believe in other people’s words by default, then nobody can trick you.

What I’ve said might sound familiar for those who heard about Niccolo Machiavelli. Machiavelli was an Italian diplomat, politician and writer of the Renaissance period, best known as the author of “The Prince”, where he described the “proper” ways princes should govern their lands. Machiavelli claimed, that people are generally “ungrateful liars and deceivers greedy for profit” and the prince should always keep it in mind. Nowadays, this Renaissance writer is infamous and disrespected by many. At the same time, are we actually that different from Niccolo Machiavelli?

Every business we make is based on distrust. When I go to the shop, at least one camera is observing me – shop owners don’t trust me, apparently. When a person applies for a job and gets it, both the employee and the employer have to sign an employment contract. Nations keep their armies even if there is no real threat. The distrust is a very important part of any relationship, as it lets us assure, that we end up winning, not losing. It’s our airbag. If we don’t have it, we risk our businesses, our lifes.
We often say that Machiavelli was cynical and ruthless. At the same time, we set up all kinds of safety measures in our lives. Doesn’t it mean, that Machiavelli was actually right about human kind?

Questions for you:
1. Do you agree that distrust is important to business and life in general?
2. Do you agree that it’s safer to assume that all people are dishonest and greedy? What can such belief lead to in life?
3. Have you read Machiavelli’s “The Prince”? What do you think about it or the author?

If you agree or disagree with any of the statements in the article, please express it in the comment section.

Comments

Unknown said…
Maybe "House M.D." series and popular sentence "Everybody lies" may have some impact on it, but I think it is necessary to have distrust in life. Of course in moderation.

Sometimes it's safer, because you can prevent some unwanted situations to happen in your life but mostly I think it's easier. If you don't want to build any relationship it's ok, you may not trust many people. But life without some emotional bonds is flat and meaningless. You should have at least a few people you can trust.

When it comes to business, it's crucial to have distrust. When money is in game everything is possible. Companies want profit, not friends.

Unfortunately, I've never read "The Prince" and don't know much about the author but after your article I think it will change.
Magdalena Popek said…
As you said, what's been presented in the article is quite obvious, however sometimes even the most obvious things have to be said. I believe distrust is important. When I walk alone in the night I'm rather nervous and it's not because I think everyone want to hurt me but because I know someone might want to do it. Even when driving a car you have to assume someone may do something stupid, lose control over a car or just get distracted for a moment. It's the distrust that keep us safe because we are more cautious thanks to it. But we can't get crazy about it because this would be the easiest way to the mental hospital. When doing business we have to be cautious, but can't be morbidly suspicious at the same time. If I assumed everyone want to cheat me or hurt me I would never leave my house actually. You have to find the golder ratio between the trust and distrust in everyday life.
Unknown said…
If you compare human society with any kind of animal's societies (packs, herds, prides), you will see that we are wolfs that pretend to be sheeps. Every one of us is selfish egoist, who thinks only about his welfare. Nobody does abything because of being altruist. In the "pack" of sheeps you simply must to be prepared to the time when they'll show their real nature of wolves.

Answering a secon question, I want to say that "assume" is a very right word in this case. If you know about the possibility of some event, you can prevent it or use it for your own good. It is nothing but simple carefulness.

I haven't read "The Prince" but it seems that I realy need to. It looks like a good material to think about.
Jakub Lisicki said…
Everyone lies, just not always. It could be pretty good to base everything on distrust, but at the same time it would be really unhealthy and toxic. We need to base our releations mostly on trust, otherwise we'd go crazy. It's really crucial to find the 'middle ground' between trust and distrust. It becomes a little bit more complicated when it comes to business. We have to understand every single sentence we are leaving our signature on. If we are not sure, it's better to consult that before.

I don't think that assuming that all people are greedy and dishonest is sane. We can't judge everyone by the same standards, everyone is different. This approach may lead to a lot of misunderstandings and people feeling unfairly misjudged.

I didn't read that book, but I think it would be worth reading. Machiavelli had a really strict perception of the world, which wasn't exactly the best. He had gotten a lot of things right though and I think that his works are worth checking out.
In personal relationship if someone earns your trust you just cannot assume that given person is always laying. That kind of relationship has absolutely no sens, gives you no comfort and will just eat you alive. Although I believe you always need to be in control of most important aspects of your life - health, financial independence and having roof over your head. In those cases you can’t completely rely on anyone to provide that. In business there are set out rules how to behave that protect both of the parties - sign a contract before starting new job, don’t give out your card pin number to anyone. Those rules should handle the distrust part of a relationship.
Unknown said…
Thank you for the comment!

I highly recommend "The Prince", this is a book that opened my eyes on many fields. I've read quite a few books about war and politics, like "Art of War", "Anthropology of War" or "The Book of Five Rings", and "The Prince" is the one I like the most and I believe it's the easiest one to read and understand.
Unknown said…
You said that "nobody does anything because of being altruist" - I cannot agree more. If we, for example, pay for charity - are we doing it, only because we want to help? We like the feeling of doing good things, we feel satisfaction when we make others lives better. What I mean is that every time we help others we help ourselves at the same time. That's why I think the real altruism doesn't exist.

Thank you very much for your comment!
Unknown said…
I think you misunderstood one thing. To ASSUME that everybody is an untrustworthy bugger is a different thing to actually BELIEVE he is a liar. I think it's perfectly fine to assume discretly, as it can save you a lot of problems. It's still my own view on the matter and you don't need to agree with me ;P

Thank you for your comment!
Wojtek Protasik said…
I don't think of distrust as it's negative and I believe it's important. Although It's very hard to question everything and assume the worst out of any action. When it comes to safety we won't be harmed if we go with Machiavelli's approach. I think expecting everyone to be greedy is inappropriate and irrelevant. It doesn't have to do anything with safety, surviving and it is actually a very negative feature.

I've read some Machiavelli's books. It worth to mention that he was studying Rome's history to gather the whole knowledge about war and politics. I also think the best proof, we are not able to totally dedicate ourselves to live by rules found in his books, is Machiavelli himself who didn't live by them and life wasn't the best he could have.
Do I think that distrust is important to business and life in general?
First of all I think that “distrust” is very strong word. I think that being cautious and not fully believe anybody may be beneficial, and really important in business, but to distrust everybody? I think that it’s just a little paranoid.
I don’t assume that all people are dishonest and greedy, but I believe that people act just to benefit themselves in some way. I’m just skeptical that anyone would do anything good for me just because he/she is a good person.
Distrust can be important in some business situations and life in general, but everybody hate it. I belive that everybody want to trust everyone and are ready to work on it. It could make our life much more simple. But at the beginning it will be really difficult. At the beginning it is easier to just assume that everybody is dishonest and greedy, because then we don't have to think about what somebody said because we already know that that person is lying. But can you build a real relationship with anybody when you trust nobody? Building that kind of mind shelter can save your own image of yourself (probably only partialy true) from doubts about it, but it makes life less enjoyable (or even painful).
I haven't read Machiavelli’s “The Prince” but I respect the author. I don't agree with his opinion about humans but his opinion was based on facts- he was well educated and I belive that he was trying to understand the world around him. His observations leads him to conlcusion that people are "ungrateful liars and deceivers greedy for profit”. And it comes from his experience.
Unknown said…
I've never read “The Prince”.
But people should understand who is honest and who is liar.
I don't like to talk about politics. But this is the best example where everyone trusts each other.
But i believe that the future will be better, and everyone will be trusted.
The staying power of The Prince comes from the insistence on the need for a clear-sighted appreciation of how men really are as distinct from the moralizing of how they ought to be. Today, politicians hide the necessary ruthlessness of political life behind the rhetoric of family values and religious principles.
Between realism and idealism in any realm is a chasm man cannot overcome. Who amongst us is without “dirty hands”? Politics may head the list but in any walk of life be it trade, science, show-business or business, we all had our hands soiled once in a while, for idealism fades when realism looms.
Unknown said…
I haven't read Machiavelli's "The Prince", but recently I've read about original ' Prince' - Cesary Borgia. This topic isn't easy and it isn't something you can summarize in one sentence. But I'll try:
I don't like word 'distruct;, I prefer 'limited trust', but no matter how it is called I believe that this is important. It is important to control it - your distrust. You can't follow everyone and check everything they do. What is more, you can't let distrust make you crazy. You have to control it, you can't let it be the most important.
Unknown said…
I agree that distrust is important in relationship. We have to think about ourselves and what is important to us. But that means also that our "contractor" in business also could be distrustfull. I think it is safer to assume pepole are greedy. Life could be much easier if we trust people but then we should make ourselves immune to the greedinness of other people.
Unknown said…
You have to find something between being completely suspicious to anyone and believing in everything people say, or you'll go crazy.
On one hand, you can't just assume everyone lies every time they talk to you, on the other hand, believing in obvious lies makes you look stupid and gullible. If you feel the person is lying to you, do your own research, or ask someone else about that person- you don't have to cut all ties with those people or get mad at them. Just don't listen to them, or don't take their opinion into account.
In business, distrust is crucial - My manager always says "its better to have one more copy of a document, than not have one, maybe crucial, document". Every month we can hear about people selling their houses by signing some papers they don't fully (or at all) understand "but this nice man on the phone said we will get money/win a car/protect your future". Meh, "signing shady documents"- We still have those dumb ads all over the internet, telling gullible visitors that they've just won something! If those ads are still popular, then they must have some impact on people...
As for the book, I'm looking forward to reading it, as soon as i'll have some free time.
Unknown said…
Wow, that's a very optimistic approach to life :)

Politics is a good example of how important distrust is. Politicians promise us many things but don't keep those promises. If we had any tool to make them keep those promises, we would live in much better world. Right now, we are not allowed not to trust politicians and that's a big problem.
Unknown said…
Distrust is business is important, if you run your business and you cooperate with many other companies/people it's hard to trust everyone and make all deals by verbal agreement.
In general I'm trying to give people a credit of trust, sometimes it ends badly but I still have faith in goodness of newly met people.
Unknown said…
Yeah, I believe, that if you just trust anybody, then "wishful thinking" is what you actually do. You wish they say truth.
Alicja said…
I would like to believe that having a common sense and being relatively smart is enough to handle our daily matters. Personally, I like to initially give a person the benefit of the doubt once and do not rush to assumptions. I apply this rule both in my private and professional life. Perhaps assuming that all people are dishonest and greedy would be safer, but for me it would be a rather depressing assumption if applied to all people including family and friends.

I read only selected chapters from "The Prince" in high school. Unfortunately, I don't remember enough to comment on it.
Marcin Górski said…
I know, we should think that everyone is perfect but it isn't true. I think we should be cagy in business. This is real life, everyone want to make big money without other people. If you want to make business, you need to be astute.
I think that I'm a distrustful person and I like it. I don't want to be disappointed in somebody and when I'm meeting new people, I'm very careful.
I've never read “The Prince”, I hate politics!
Unknown said…
1. Of course the trust or distrust is a very big issue when it comes to human lives.
2.I experienced on my own what is dishonesty. So, for now I have only a close circle of people, whom I trust. I always check the new people in my life if I can trust them or not.
3. I have never read the prince and I am more into the fantasy books.
KamilG said…
Distrust in life and especially in business is needed. At work the rivalry is a natural motivation for people to fulfill their tasks better, faster, more effective.
People in different ways try to get into higher positions, better paid work. It requires from people to trust their mates only as far as it's needed. I don't agree with the Machiavelli's thesis at all.
Being dishonest in my opinion is unprofitable because of many reasons. People can recognise easily that someone who is fake. Usually their instincts tell them to stay away from such people, because there is a high risk that same can happen to them. I have read on some websites that it's better to be honest, reliable and above all punctual. Above mentioned traits people like in others and according to my life experiences it's true. I haven't read any Machiavelli book so I can't comment on it.
Unknown said…
Gotta find a golden mean. Can't trust just anyone or distrust everyone around. There are too many variables to take into consideration, the expierence also helps in deciding who is trustworthy and who is not. Signing a business contract is beneficial to both sides, just a set of rules both sides agreed upon in a given time. Try to prove that those were the rules without writing it down and signing, that is, if you had to because maybe you wouldn't have to, depends.
It is safer to assume that all people are dishonest and greedy but good luck living such a safe life. Havn't read Machiavelli's The Prince although this article made me curious about it, might try it.
Do I think, that distrust is necessary for our life? I think yes. We all don’t trust each other. We must show, that we are trustworthy. Perhaps, its customary to give a credit of trust to a person. You communicate with the person and observe. If in your head there are even a few brains, then sooner or later you can see that a person is not trustworthy.
And yet, I can’t say that Machiavelli is wrong. If you always trust every person you meet, nothing good will come of it. People must learn from their mistakes. After all, one in ten, maybe a rascal. Unfortunately, we cannot write on the face, whether we are good or bad. The bank doesn't spread the money on the tables, in the hope that we are all honest.
I didn’t read the Machiavelli’s works. But I think that he is worthy of respect because we remember and know about him half a century after his death. And since he had achieved so much, it was unlikely that he was a particularly trusting and kind person. History has repeatedly shown us that the winners have teeth to gnaw their way.

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