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Week 11 [06.06 - 12.06] Basic income

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(source: http://img.youtube.com/vi/-vnB16E36EQ/0.jpg)

This year Finland will become the first country in the world, which will guarantee the unconditional basic income. What’s that ? Unconditional basic income(sometimes called basic income guarantee) is some amount of money financed by a country and transferred to every citizen as an addition to any income received from elsewhere. Finland is going to set basic income at 800€. That sum won’t be taxed, so it’s just net income. Just to compare – in Poland an average salary was about 900€ before taxes and 600€ net.

Finland isn’t the only country, which thinks about the distribution of money to its citizens. Switzerland organized a referendum on it as well.
Let’s think about advantages of unconditional basic income. Politicians from the left-side believe that basic income will completely eliminate the problem of poverty. The other advantage of such a solution is lowering bureaucracy and number of officials, who take care of the system. Basic income is intended to replace all other benefits, so it should make the whole social system clearer  and simple.

On the other hand,  basic income has many opponents. Their main argument is the opinion that such a benefit will discourage people from working. That will cause many new problems, like lack of money in the country’s budget, same in the pension system. For me, the biggest disadvantage of such a solution is different. 

Justice is one of the most important values in our life. Why people who are working really hard and efficiently should pay huge taxes for the system, which distributes money to the people who simply don’t want to work, because they get enough money from the country for free.  

 What’s your opinion about unconditional basic income ? Do you think that it could support the Polish economy, or rather completely destroy it ? Based on the results of polls about program 500+ - can you imagine a situation, when Polish voters are against basic income ? I’m waiting for your opinions about that subjects. 

 Sources:

  1. Wikipedia
  2. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-to-consider-introducing-universal-basic-income-in-2017-a6963321.html



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Comments

Cezary Góralski said…
I heard about referendum in Switzerland and surprisingly they rejected the idea. I understand why they did and personal I would vote the same, but knowing our country and people in it they would vote differently. People in other countries understand the cost of such income that money are takes from somewhere. But Poles look for every option of getting something for free and later they are surprised that they have to pay higher taxes, that we have debts, that we don’t have money for hospitals, roads and everything else. I don’t think such income is good, because everyone is responsible for their’s own destiny and also financial situation.
8 June 2016 at 13:27
Marcin Konarski said…
I understand your point of view, mine is the same. I don’t think such incomes should exist at all. Someone who even created this idea and decided to publicise it should regret it. Because some countries like Greece or Italy may think about it, and this will destroy their’s countries.
8 June 2016 at 13:28
Unknown said…
I agree with you and Cezary. This is a beautiful, utopian idea, sadly. People love free money too much, even hard-working nations. The Polish are considered hard-working, but, I think, only by foreginers... If we got unconditional basic income here, the consequences could be staggering. Already a lot of people have given up work because they are quite well-off just from the benefits. Some emmigrants do this abroad too and they are frowned upon.
Still, I'm curious how it will turn out for Finland. The Scandinavian culture seems so different from the European and the American; maybe they really can pull this off without bankrupting the country.
I'm inclined to think a balance is possible to achieve, but it requires a specific mentality, which not many nations have.
8 June 2016 at 20:41
Marcin Konarski said…
Of course so many people look for money for nothing and look for benefits instead of true exchange work for money. Balance should be achieved in different way. You will definitely find countries willing for such income. But maybe that is what must be. Someone must commit the mistake and others will learn on this as an example.
9 June 2016 at 13:47
Unknown said…
I actually vouch for Finland to establish basic income, and not for ideological reasons. In my personal opinion this is very daring and dangerous experiment that can be intriguing to watch. I made quick calculations to estimate, that basic income for every of 5.5 million citizens would cost 53 billion Euro each year. It does not tell much, but annual fiscal expenditure of Finland is only 52 billion Euro. That means the whole program would require to Finnish government to spend twice as much as they do now. I don't know how they plan to pull it, but it's going to be interesting to watch.
About my calculations. I took data from:
http://pl.tradingeconomics.com/finland/indicators
Then I multiplied basic income by amount of citizens and 12. This made 53bn Euro. Then I took monthly fiscal expenditure and multiplied it by 12, which made 52bn Euro. Correct me if I am wrong.
10 June 2016 at 19:15
Jagoda Bielawska said…
I think that idea of uncoditional basic income is imposible to achieve. Sure, it is very proper and great, but in our reality it will only bring a lot of social displacement. People can't and shouldn't have something for free. Of course, for the part of society it will be a bless. But there is a part that will cheat and overexploit it. Government should help people, but should not take care of financial situation of every manin country.
11 June 2016 at 12:47
Marcin Konarski said…
It is very dangerous experiment indeed. Of course there is no way to have such amount of money to give freely to everyone. As it was told before all other scholarships, pensions and financial aids will be removed. There is huge probability that the all economy will be destroyed and the worst is danger for public health.
11 June 2016 at 15:39
Marcin Konarski said…
In general it is very weird to give people money for nothing. We might as well let each of us print money at home. I consider everyone responsible for their financial situation.
11 June 2016 at 15:42
Maciej Spychała said…
In my opinion of all the major social economic policies only healthcare and education funded by taxex can achieve good results. Saying that, if there is a country that could pull of the idea of basic income it probably is Finland (Norway/Sweden probably would probably also do good on this field). Their social democracies actually work, because of their historic national sense of unity. That doesn't mean that anything taken from those countries would work in any bigger country, just because of the scale, or in other similar in size, because of their national habits.

When it comes to Poland, both basic income and 500+ are terrible ideas that really bring down our economy. In the EU we are perceived as hardworking and that's because there is no point in being unemployed or employed in a low-income field your whole life here. That's extremely beneficial and relative success of our economy is in a big part a product of our lack of social economic policies (compared to other countries). In our case the wilder our capitalism, the better ;) (to a certain extent obviously)
12 June 2016 at 00:50
Marcin Konarski said…
In my opinion this will be area of usage, there will be more fake marriages and people buying citizenship. Of course 500+ is another tragic idea, hopefully we will never even consider such income in our country.
12 June 2016 at 09:21
Unknown said…
I agree with you. I think in Poland it will be really bad idea, because polish people are very lazy (of course not everyone). Already, many people prefer to collect grants than work. I'm not good with the economy but for me it's a sick idea. Good is helping people who need it but if everyone got some a basic living moeny allowance that most people in this country would prefer to stop working and only ambitious individuals would work. I think a little bit of bureaucracy in the case of benefits isn't so bad.
12 June 2016 at 11:08
Unknown said…
I guess saying "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."is relevant here. I beliave it's always better to stimulate people, encaourge them by creating opportunities for increasing income than just send money.
12 June 2016 at 14:05
Unknown said…
It could be a good idea in some countries, but I think that Poland isn't one of them.
12 June 2016 at 16:07
Unknown said…
Thanks for very interesting topic of presentation. In my opinion polish economy system is not adapted to basic income in amount similar to offered in Switzerland or Finland. I think that polish mentality does not allow for the introduction basic income. I agree with you that people who work really hard and efficiently would have to pay huge taxes for the system and e.g for me it will be very irritating that I must to pay money for people who simply don't want to work and get enough money from conutry for free. Poles like to cheat and make use from situation therefore many people simply would not want to work. I remember the situation that someone was selling t-shirts on Allegro and sent a new one when t-shirt was not as discribed according to buyer. People who ordered t-shirts cheated and reported non-compliance just to get a new one. It's terrifying and sad.
12 June 2016 at 16:22
Unknown said…
Just wait till someone exploits that, when theres money theres lust for it. Its all cool but giving money away like that will just make lazy people lazier.
12 June 2016 at 16:23
Unknown said…
It seems to be good idea, when I'm looking for it as citizen. I'm not sure that it is a good clue for commonwealth.
I'm not sure, but I think that your position in this in this case is righ.
Everyone should get so much as far as he earned.
12 June 2016 at 17:03
Unknown said…
I agree with you. We can't popularize laziness.
12 June 2016 at 17:10
Unknown said…
Switzerland still have really smart brains leaving there. This guaranteed basic income would kill their economy. I'm really looking forward how this Polish "500 +" project will end. I heard about two mothers, who were drunk dead. Socialism kills!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6HEH23W_bM
12 June 2016 at 17:22
Kamil Wiśniewski said…
I agree that the basic income is basically giving money for free, and in that case some people would just stay home and not work. If that happens countries budget has no income, since its based on taes. I think it would totally desroy polish economy if it were to happen here. Unfortunatelly most of the polish population is not educated and does not understand the basics of how the economy works. And I am quite certain that the poll would say yest to guaranteed income. None of them though would think about where the mony would come from.
12 June 2016 at 19:23
Unknown said…
There's just no way this can work. Obviously who wouldn't want 800€ for free, but that's just not how things work... Finland is a lot different from Poland, so maybe they can somehow restrain the whole thing, I mean mostly people who won't want to work, but knowing our country... no. My stance on this is similar to our 500+ - there are better ways of helping people than giving them cash for free.
12 June 2016 at 20:07
Marcin Konarski said…
Yes the majority is terribly lazy. It is really unnecessary to give anything more then is already given as grants, scholarships and any other financial forms of help. Government can help by giving more opportunities to work but not give money for nothing.
12 June 2016 at 22:04
Marcin Konarski said…
The quote is very suitable to this situation. People should be encouraged to work not to be lazy.
12 June 2016 at 22:04
Marcin Konarski said…
I don't think it is good idea for any country.
12 June 2016 at 22:05
Marcin Konarski said…
You're welcomed. Of course our financial situation and economy system is far behind Finland or Switzerland. Exactly, I would prefer to pay for my health insurance (which I did additionally right now, because it is impossible to go to public doctor, so I have to go to private one), I would like to save for my retirement I don't need anyone to did it for me. Poles look for every possible way to cheat and this will be huge area for that.
12 June 2016 at 22:07
Marcin Konarski said…
But there is no money to be given. We are in huge debts.
12 June 2016 at 22:08
Marcin Konarski said…
There is no need to change rules that existed for thousands of years.
12 June 2016 at 22:08
Marcin Konarski said…
They are smart because they rejected this idea. This country in general kills not only people, but potential at the first place.
12 June 2016 at 22:09
Marcin Konarski said…
There are already plans for higher taxes as they are in highly globalised countries like Norway and that's why they have a lot of public school and the level of living is much higher. Of course we should introduce economy lessons at school instead of all unnecessary lessons. Maybe people will understand how this works works.
12 June 2016 at 22:13
Marcin Konarski said…
Of course this will not work. Well if I was voting knowing how this work I would reject this idea. I know that I can have something for free, but the whole country will be destroyed because of this little gain.
12 June 2016 at 22:14
Moode said…
All people like to have as much free stuff they can but they don’t think about where do all these free things come from. Because after something is given to another person it must be taken from the someone. Personally, I do not support giving anything for free. Why do some people have to work hard to have something and others get it for free? Polish 500+ is one big misunderstanding, as the statistics show, the number of intoxicated people in Poland are rising in the period of receiving benefits.
12 June 2016 at 22:16
Pat said…
I agree with most of the commenters. I think only the stupid people are happy when they hear an idea like this. It's not some kind of magical money that comes from nowhere - you have to cut the costs on something to be able to give it away.

As Aleksandra said, it's very similar to Polish 500+ program - people who receive the money are happy, but most of them don't realise that the money they get comes from taxes. From the government's point of view, it's a very clever idea - you take money away from the citizens, then you give some of it back, and suddenly everyone adores you for being 'generous'.
12 June 2016 at 22:26
Monika Stefaniak said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
12 June 2016 at 22:39
Monika Stefaniak said…
I guess I am opposed to unconditional basic income. Maybe in countries such as Finland it is possible. Different mentality, different motivations. Poland is quite different. Here, in fact half of the people that did not go to work. I am when it comes to 500+ am a supporter. I think anyone who has a child will have the same sentence, because he knows how much money is needed. Most people have two children - a family that will take 3 thousand zł is the exception, publicized.
12 June 2016 at 22:41
Unknown said…
This has become a hot topic recently. I always felt it's better to give people more opportunities to develop than just offering them money, mostly because a lot of people can live from social support without doing absolutely anything (France, Germany). I really don't like the idea of punishing some people with taxes to support those that can't support themselves. I'm also not too fond of our age pension system, but that's enough material for a whole separate discussion. I don't know how it works in other countries but I feel here in Poland introduction of basic income would only reinforce the entitlement some people already feel. It's a huge problem that our minimal wage is so low and that we earn less compared to other European countries. If there are countries rich enough to give their citizens extra money just for their citizenship that's great. I feel I have to finish by adding that even while opinions on our own 500+ are divided, I think most of us agree that omission of single mothers with just one child is a big injustice and the argument about it not being a support program for single mothers but one that promotes large families doesn't speak to me.
13 June 2016 at 00:26
Marcin Konarski said…
I absolutely agree with you I don't support any kind of unnecessary help, of course there are people who need it and deserve it like handicaps, but if we really count them there will be small amount of such people. We don't have anything for free so why there are people who do.
13 June 2016 at 07:58
Marcin Konarski said…
Of course and I regret to say that probably there is a lot of them in our country, since there is a lot of poor people in country. I don't understand people who complain about their's life and they don't work at all. There is so many job offers and all they have to do it to get up and try to change life, but they don't.
13 June 2016 at 08:01
Marcin Konarski said…
But it is their's decision to have kids, there are billions of people and there is no single place where something like that is working. I don't like 500+ idea and everyone should be responsible about managing their finances.
13 June 2016 at 08:06
Marcin Konarski said…
I don't like such idea either, there will be more people looking for taxes paradise, changing their location to other more friendly countries. Of course it doesn't make any sense and in my opinion is absolutely unnecessary. If people have money for cars, clothes, holidays they should also save money for children if they decide to have them.
13 June 2016 at 08:09
Unknown said…
I think it is an utopia vision of world. I really can’t imagine it working long-term, because of the differences we have as people. There would be ones finding this solution great and still working hard, but also we have tons of opportunists who would just stop doing anything because they wouldn’t have to. And in there very short time this economic system would collapse. So I don’t support it really
13 June 2016 at 21:41
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