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Week 11 (01.06-07.06) Imigrants

For the last few weeks  there has been many discussions among politicians from many different European Union countries about immigrants from Northern Africa. Poland will be probably forced to accept a few thousand people from that unstable region of the world.

http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/32172/migracje_infografika_poprawka2_wp.jpeg

Do we know who those people are ? Could we be sure that terrorists won’t take advantage of placing their “spies” in our country and in future make terrorists attack ? Is there any possibility for those immigrants to integrate with our community and to be useful for our country ? In my opinion we should answer those questions before even starting discussions about the number of admitted immigrants.



http://static.polityka.pl/_resource/res/path/89/7a/897a6e87-280a-40e2-b1b4-e7879c3589ad_900x


The most popular way for immigrants to get to Europe is across the Mediterranean Sea. They  pay gangsters for slots on primitive boats, which transport people from Africa to EU countries like Italy, France or Greece. During such illegal journeys hundreds of people are in danger of drowning in the sea, because those boats are old, overflowing and without proper crew.

Is it really the best way to solve their problem by admitting  them? They don’t speak Polish and English – most immigrants speak French, they don’t have any prospects for a legal job in our country. We will have to pay for their maintenance in our country for many years. Many people forget: those people are criminals, because they tried to cross EU boarders illegally. Should we really give them rewards for that?

 As a highly developed group of countries EU has to help those people. They are living in really dangerous part of the world and we are also responsible for helping them. But in my opinion we have to find another way of doing that, better than allowing  them to stay in our country, for our money.

I'm interested in your opinions about that situation. I'm waiting for any questions and I will be also glad to take part in discussion about that.

SOURCES:

Comments

When I read for the first time about this idea I was shocked and I thought that it is 1st April and April Fool’s Day. I do not understand way European Union is not against Immigrants and acts in opposite to expected way and want to help them. How they can try to force us to bring them to our country? In my opinion that will only cause robbery, killings and illegal work. As you mentioned that do not even speak english not saying about polish language. This is very very bad idea to bring them to our country.
Unknown said…
To be honest I am not an expert in this area and my knowledge is rather poor. I guess not many countries appercieate immigrants, ut we have to remember thatnthere must be some reasons they want to leave. People from Poland also emigrate - to other west european countries and I am pretty sure that Britains are not quite happy about it (or are they?). This might be opportunity for the, to start new life
IzabelaSzumen said…
Haah, Ok, so we need to talk, I believe that you didn't absorb any knowledge of history and have no empathy. Those people, mainly are running out of their countries which are engulfed by the war, did you hear about ISIS? or did you maybe hear about how another country in Europe did behave toward immigrants from Poland during the II world war?
Another thing is that we signed the Geneva Convention which is the agreement between many countries thats tell us to give a help for people who are at risk of losing a life! Would you like to be in a similar situation?
IzabelaSzumen said…
http://www.tvn24.pl/tak-jest,39,m/z-syrii-tylko-chrzescijanie,547015.html
sorry for polish link Mrs Świerk :)
Unknown said…
I am not against imigrants. We should treat them like everyone else - with respect to their nature and culture.
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
Unfortunatelly I’m afraid that people who will come to Poland could be bad people. But although I hope that they will be good, pure people, who will want to work and live in our country like normal people. Of course this is not possible. We will discriminate their because they are alien . We can talk that it is otherwise, but it was, is and will be in the future. Unfortunatelly of course.
I’m reading your article more and more and I don’t know more and more :/ They are criminals- you wrote it about them. They have true reason, that they want to live in our country. What is it? They don’t speak Polish and English, it might be the problem but it mustn’t.
On the other hand, may be you’re right. We should help other people like Christians from Syria. It is life or dead for them.
Unknown said…
Thanks for your comment. My opinion is very similar to you :)
Unknown said…
Of course there are many reasons for this that they want to leave their country. The main one is the war and the conditions in which they must live.
Unknown said…
I know the history, I also heard abou ISIS and Geneva Convention. And I agree that these people need help, but not in such a form as proposed by the European Union. No one knows who these people are, and it is a high probability that they are radical Muslims. Would you like to have a neighbor who doesn't recognize your rights? Here is an article how Muslims treat women.

Of course, nobody wants to be a similar situation to them

Unknown said…
We only know that they don't want to live at theirs home. We don't know whether they want to just live in Poland. This European Union wants to impose on these people where they should live.
MartaSB said…
It is really interesting how easily people present their radical approach towards immigrants when the situation is not affecting them personally.

How many Muslim men do you know and how are they treating women in their environment, in their families? How many Muslim women do you know and how they are raised and treated?
MartaSB said…
"...it is a high probability that they are radical Muslims." Really? What is the evidence for this opinion?

As for the article. Must a woman always obey her husband? Why are you asking Muslims this question? Let me cite you the Bible:

1 Timothy 2:11-14: Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

And tell me, what is the level of domestic violence in Poland? How many girls are raped by their uncles or neighbours? Who is doing this? The only few % of atheists, Muslims and Buddists in Poland? I don't think so.

Judging people based on their religion is a really unfortunate idea.
Unknown said…
I don't judge people based on their religion. In any environment there are good and bad people. Immigrants are both Muslims and Christians. My statement I just wanted to highlight that Muslims are a greater threat to Polish, that is, for a Christian nation.
Unknown said…
I personally know two girls who married a Muslim. One of them is very happy. However, the second of them had to divorce him because he was ill-treated by him.
Unknown said…
I don’t think that incomming immigrants to our country is something bad. I think that we could gain by this situation. We could connect with other nations and learn about them more. In my opinion old people can have problem with that because some of them are racist and that can be a huge problem. They don’t adore other religions or color of skin.
Unknown said…
Our borders should be closed for them. We didn’t have foreign colonies in the past so I don’t find any reason for locating those people in Poland. Eastern countries just want to spread their own problem. What is more we don’t have money for that. They are not qualified workers, polish is not easy language to learn so they will have problems to find any job. I’m not going to listen about giving them social welfare from our taxes.

And we are not sure that those immigrants will be islam-free. They can simply pretend to be non-islamic. Because jihad is one of the most important pillar in islam lying is allowed thanks to “taqiya”. I read and watch a lot about muslims in Europe and we are lucky being homogenous society. There are many Polish exiles on the east and they should have priority instead of Africans.

To be clear, I’m not against immigration in general. I’m against muslims. They don’t assimilate in new society and always force sharia law. Chinese also have problems with integration, but they don’t behead innocent people on behalf of religion.

For you girls above, who advocate muslims, check out statistics about rapes in Sweden and watch e.g this soft content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo . Do you still want to live among those dumbasses?
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
I found an interesting article about illegal immigrants in Saudi Arabia. Details are here.
Unknown said…
Thank you for your comment and a link to the video. Islamization of Europe is a growing problem which must face the Government. But it is a topic for a separate presentation:)
Unknown said…
Older people may have a problem with that because remember the difficult times for Polish and how they were treated by foreign nations.
Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
I'm not against immigrants, but the situation you mentioned is troubling in my opinion. These people will have a hard time integrating into our culture, there is no doubt in that. Especially if they don't speak Polish and not even English as you suggest. Even worse, they might not want to integrate at all. There are many documentaries about what is happening in the UK, Marcin Kornacki linked one of the videos I was thinking about, and it's scary. Even if some of these reports are exaggerated.

But let's put the Muslim issue aside, I also think that EU telling immigrants to go specifically to our country is unfair. I suspect those people might have had some contacts somewhere in Europe (like friends who emigrated earlier) and that was their true destination, and now they are probably going to be stranded here. Imagine you wanted to emigrate to the United Kingdom and suddenly someone tells you „no” and places you, let's say, in Greece or Portugal. No offense to citizens of these countries, it's just an example.
Unknown said…
I have nothing against immigrants, as long as they adapt to the coutry's culture and rules and don't try to interfere with it. People are travelling around the world in search for a better life and there is nothing we can do about it. I think that there should be some regulations to reduce the amount of illegals - one thing is that the country doesn't benefit from this arrangement and the other is that these people live in constant fear of being discovered and deported. I don't know much about the immigration rights and laws, so I don't have any solution of my own worked out, but in my opinion something should be done about this situation, because there will only be more immigrants, not less.
I agree with you, I don't mind helping others if they really want to integrate with us - learn polish, get to know our culture, traditions and laws. Because I think that is what an immigrant should do. If not they should leave. I don't want some countries within a country. Like in the countries you've mentioned, like UK or France. We have enough problems we don't need an immigration problem. If someone wants to live in Poland, he or she should be obligated to pass exam from the language and culture. The helf should we provided but not for free...Do you know what I mean?
I agree they should not be granted any social welfare. We should take care of our own people first, but if they really want to stay here they should know the language and culture, and they have to be able to work and what's the most important thing they should want to work. Being unemplyed on social in our country should not be an option...

I am against muslim too. I am convinced that wering burkas(?) shuold be provibited in Poland...
Woman has basically no rights in muslin culture....
I have nothing against immigrants in general but EU policy for handling them is not good in my opinion. It is not a good idea to accept people into your country and then pay for their maintenance for the rest of their lives. It just corrupts people. I've heard that in other EU countries there is a big problem with those immigrants because they don't work and the society has to pay for them. I think that the fault is on both sides. We can't really blame the immigrants for using our money instead of working if we give them the money in the first place. I think that we should change our policy for those immigrants and help them start to maintain themselves instead of just giving them money. Perhaps not all of them would like that option, but I think it would be best for everyone. That's the only way we can really help those people.
I have nothing against immigrants as long they can offer something to Poland. For instance if an immigrant is specialist in certain domain and therse is a shortage on the market, he/she is valuable for our market and should be allowed to stay here, otherwise: no thank you. There is not enough jobs for uneducated Polish people letting more immigrants in will increase crime rate.
Julia Osiak said…
I think that Poland should help those people and take care of some of these immigrants. I know that this will cause extra expenses for our country, but human lives are worth it. The number of sheltered people should be adjusted to our financial possibilities and take into consideration social conditions. We shouldn't support completely for an unknown period of time, but a special program should help them become capable of finding a job and steadily become independent in their new homes.
Michal Kulesza said…
It's closed circle... Al-Qaeda was trained and funded by US to fight USSR in Afghanistan. Next they turned against US and then we had war in Afghanistan. Syrian radicals turned people to start the riot and they shut down Assad (with help from Western countries). Now, these radicals formed ISIS and they want to 'unite' Arab word using guns.

What now? We will invite these people to Poland and Europe so ISIS can spread faster?
Unknown said…
True but I think that older people are afraid of immigrants because they can bring some illnesses or rob them.
I totally agree! Unfortunately mass media are politically correct and common sense had left their premises long time ago.
Mateusz Frycie said…
As long as immigrants are willing to mingle into our culture and want to become a real part of our society, I have nothing against their inflow. However, we have to be aware of the fact that often they build separate communities and do not want to be influenced by other nations. They create a country in a country with its own rules and laws. Such behaviour may be dangerous for us in the long term.
I agree with the girls and I'm quite shocked that you use the argument that "they could be Muslims".

Besides, pardon me, but Poland is not a Christian nation. Christianity is a dominant religion, but the country is secular and not connected with religion.
I know two Muslim girls and one boy from Pakistan who is an atheist. They're all totally "normal" people, just like us. Letting Muslims or any other people into our country doesn't mean they'll automatically inforce our law to change.
I agree with your opinion :)
I've heard that there are numerous organisations that help illegal immigrants to settle down and live here legally. I even remember seeing some posters in the buses about that :)
Izabela, you're talking about some idyllic situation, really. Of course, there are some people who prepare to live in another country and have time to learn its culture and language. However, most of the immigrants escape from their country, because they can't live there - for example, their country has a war going on. If there was a war in Poland and you wanted to escape to another country, would you really like to be stopped at the border and handed an exam from German / French / Spanish etc. language and culture? Would you really think about such things if your life was in danger?
Unknown said…
People should focus on solving the problems in the countries from where they're immigrating, not making it easier to live in our own country. I've got nothing against people from abroad here but they should do everything legally.
I disagree with your attitude and I think it's very unfair and weird to base your assumptions on such sketchy and exagerrated knowledge of foreign cultures.

First of all, many people escape their country because of violence or wars. Do you know how many people escaped from Poland during World Wars? And still, your first question is, if these people are terrorists or spies, and if they can be of use for us? What if there was a war going on in Poland right now and you wanted to take your family safely to other country, and you would hear "Hey, stop right there. You may be terrorists or spies, we won't let you in"? That lack of empathy is just terrifying.

Secondary, pardon me, but it's really ignorant to think that all immigrants from East are radical countries are radical Muslims who beat their wifes or try to spy on us. Of course, I agree there are several cultural differences, but don't you think it would be wiser and more humane to consider how can we help them blend in and respect our law? Instead, you ask in the comments, if someone would like to have a Muslim for a neighbor. You know what - I wouldn't. It's not person's beliefs that determine them, it's their behavior.

Maybe this will be shocking news for you, but people from East or from Africa are people too. Some of them can be Muslim, some of them may be lazy and not wanting to work, some of them may be thieves. But, hey - there are lazy people and thieves in Poland as well. It's plainly illogical to assume otherwise.

And no, I'm not saying "let's all pay for immigrants to come to our country by billions!" - because I realise the economical and cultural dangers. All I'm saying is, read objective sources. Educate yourself of East cultures and revise your belief that they're all dangerous. Analyse the data. Think of the economic side. If you're worried they won't work here, think about the ways we can provide them with work. And show them some empathy. They're people, just like you and me, and you refuse to aid them just because you believe they can be spies. That's really childish and unemphathetic.
Unknown said…
Thank you for your lively discussion on the presented topic :) To summarize most of you don't have anything against immigrants who are able to adapt to our culture. However, a lot of people are opposed to the issue of funding of life for these people.
Unknown said…
Unfortunately, I'm afraid these people. We do not know exactly who they are. We do not know whether they want to work or just wont to be on our dependents. We do not know that they really are Catholics. Of course, if they have good intentions we must help them. Are we sure, they are not ISIS warriors?
These people fled with ISIS, but why to Europe?
Unknown said…
I think it will not work for Poland, sorry guys, but you have pretty nationalistic society and while some white minorities from Slavic countries have a possibility to adopt to your state and become part of it, I don't think it will work out as it works out in France or Great Britain.
Specific part of it, is that terrorist threat will not exist in Poland as it exists in France. You are pretty catholic state where others have to accept your views, I don't know for how long the EU will not try to put a pressure on you to spread all that 'every one has right to praise the god they like' stuff like it was in Italy (when some woman decided that all those crosses and other religious things are trying to indoctrinate her kids with radical ideas that were unacceptable for her). So I think if those immigrants from muslim states will appear your people will break them just because they are not that happy that some guys that are not able to say word or two in Polish decided that their views on allah and all their stuff should be respected and put as number one priority. Every act of terrorism will just make you and your government more tough against those immigrants so probably very soon it will be like in Japan - 'Muslim or from Africa? You are no good here'.
I don't want to sound racist, I have a few friends who are muslims and they are pretty descent guys who respect Poland and its laws, but I hope that your government will not allow illegal immigrants from Africa become a part of your society - we can see what is going on in France or Belgium (yeah, there are some blocks that are under control of immigrants and it looks like a total garbage - a lot of trash, stink and all those people that don't know the state's language, damn it, they don't know any language besides their mambo-jambo, but at the same time they request equal respect while acting like barbarians).
Talking about Poland, fortunately we do not have much problems with immigrants. Our country is probably one of the most pure in the world if we talk about purity of nation in a given territory. In 10, 20, 30 years we probably will still resist taking other nations into our polish blood. On the other hand UK was so packed with immigrants that they started fighting against them silently by causing paperwork problems.
Unknown said…
As I wrote earlier, I know the history of Polish and I know that during the Second World War, Poles have migrated to safer places. Such a situation is normal during the war.

In reading some of the comments I get the impression that not everyone understood the topic. This presentation is about illegal immigrants and not about immigrants at all. Immigrants from the East in Poland are legally and it is clear that Poland should help such persons.
I think the more developed countries should provide a safe asylum for those immigrants of dangerous countries, after all, those are human beings in need of help. Of course the most important thing would be to fix or at least mitigate in some way the problems in the countries from which they are running away but that is easier said than done.

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