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Week 5 [23.04-29.04.2018] - Perfectionism


Perfectionism

I’ve recently read a biography of Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple and its long-time general director. One of his main characteristics was that he was a complete perfectionist. This was of course one of the reasons his products became very successful and iconic in IT industry. But some of his co-workers hated it, because sometimes it complicated the process of product development  and manufacturing and they thought he was just exaggerating. This made me think – whether perfectionism is good or bad? Should we always aim for perfection? Here is Jon Bowers talking about this problem.


Questions:
1.      Do you agree with Jon? Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything? Does lower acceptance level could be dangerous?
2.      Are you perfectionist? Or you rather don’t bother and accept something when it’s ‘good enough’?
3.      Have you ever used any of Apple’s products? Do you think they are perfect or not? Why?


Comments

Jakub Nietupski said…
I think it depends on how do you approach your work. Often it is important that you aim high and be ambitious but also you have to allow the thought that not everything will work out as planned. Otherwise you may find yourself stuck for days dealing with an issue that won't be that important in the final picture.
I don't consider myself perfectionist, I try to always remind myself of the final goal of what I'm doing and adjust my level of "perfectionism" according to the importance of task.
I had used iPod before the music streaming services era. It was definitely not perfect. I lacked keyboard.
Unknown said…
Jon is a radical, but I like the problems he talks about. Lower acceptance level is a problem and people should aim higher, get used to fail. It's true. Focusing on being better and better leads to better results, settling on what we achieved is pathetic. Although there are always some people who will misinterpret and end up on a therapy.

I don't consider myself as a perfectionist. Sometimes it's safer to let go and accept this 'good enough' and sometimes we shouldn't. In my opinion, people should specialize and try to aim always for better in what the are good at and what they like.

I am using one of their MacBook Pro's. I made a nice deal and bought it for the full price. The operating system experience and compatibility they give me is great. However, I find their marketing style pathetic and people who follow them very often try to evangelize with crap arguments. Nevertheless, it is apparently very effective when you look at the numbers.
Lukasz Mroczek said…
Despite the fact that I’m a kinda perfectionist, I think that there are some particular cases where lower acceptance level is necessary. We can’t aim for perfection in every small thing because after some time it may be frustrating and even harmful. Sometimes we have to give up a little bit but we always have to try to do our best. I think that I’m a perfectionist but with common sense. There are some areas where I can’t accept even small defect but sometimes I just don’t care and accept a thing as it is. Oohh. It’s a tough topic… I’ve used apple products for some time. I can only say that they were perfect in times when its inventor was a perfectionist. Steve Jobs was a perfectionist but in an unhealthy way and also his devices were perfect.
Unknown said…
I only partially agree with John. If your work is your passion then I agree with him, but if your work is something that you have no interest in doing then working really hard on it to achieve a perfect result is meaningless. Of course, there may be some exceptions, for example, if your work is something you are paid for then you need to do it as good as you are able to or rather as s good as your boss wants. Lower acceptance level sometimes has sense especially if you have too much on your shoulders and don't want to bother with problem further, but it also can make you lazy which would definitely affect your productivity and motivation.
I don't consider myself as a perfectionist but if I really interested in some work I do it as best as I can.
I've used Apple product only once so I can't say much about it. But I don't consider Apple products perfect because they have flaws as any other electronic product.
Marcin Mróz said…
The thing about perfectionism is that sometimes you could focus too much on the thing that won't matter that much for most of the people. But on the other hand, maybe there would be someone who would appreciate this small detail that you took care of. I believe that caring for the details will always result in something good. Maybe it will take more time to deliver, but for sure it will be appreciated.
That's interesting, beacuse in my opinion the magic of iPod was that it was really simple and intuitive device. The keyboard would take too much space for me. Also I can't find any reasonable purpose for it, but of course everyone has own preferences.
Marcin Mróz said…
That's very good point - when you do something you like and specialize at, it's more probable that you will do it right and with the care for the details. That was one of the principles at Apple - they were producing products they were really passionate about and they themselves would be willing to use.
Marcin Mróz said…
I agree with you that sometimes lower acceptance level is necessary, but there is a question how we could differentiate the things that should be done perfectly and the ones that will be 'good enough'? We can base decisions on our intuition, but everyone has different point of view and we could end up doing something which is good enough for us but unacceptable for someone else.
Yes, there could be something in this. After Steve Jobs passed away Apple stagnated a bit. Only recent iPhone X was a little breath of fresh air, but still it wasn't as revolutionary as Apple products used to be in Steve's era.
Marcin Mróz said…
Yes, as I said in previous comment, doing what you like may be indeed a key to be perfectionist. But as you mentioned in your comment, at work one must perform as good as he/she can, there shouldn't be any excuse.
Anna Koca said…
Even if I partially agree with Jon, you can see that he is a bit of a maniac. His voice is trembling when he's talking and frankly, he is even a bit scary. Imagine to have a boss like this to fire you for coming 5 minutes late or in an unbuttoned shirt. The truth is, being perfect every day destroys your psyche, we are not fit to this. And no matter what some military-minded car instructor says, no radical attitude is good nor healthy. Being lazy is bad. Being obsessed with perfection is equally bad.
I must agree that I am rather a 'good-enough' person. Partially because I engage in many things and taste life's different flavours. I do different sports, try various things, travel, study, and still try to relax from time to time. I would go nuts if I wanted to be perfect in all those things.

I am a big Apple fan, but mostly for its design and looks of the products, not for the idea of "perfectionism" that lures behind it. I think they have a business model that is responsible for most of their success, one that is anchored in the idea of product superiority. They're not technically any better than other companies like Samsung or Sony when it comes to the product's features as such.
I do not agree with him completely. I think that common sense should be kept in everything and people should not fall into paranoia. Of course, this should not accept and tolerate doing things in the easiest way. Sometimes, however, there are situations that it is necessary to use the best solution. However, high aspirations to perfection can draw crazy, especially when people you work with do not follow the same principle. Projects are often time-limited, so it can be frustrating when you do not achieve this perfection on time.

I consider myself a little perfectionist and I try to do my job as best as possible.

I've used Apple product several times, but I don't have any of their devices. I don't consider Apple products perfect.They have flaws as any other electronic product.
Marcin Mróz said…
I wouldn't consider Jon a maniac. He just stresses out how important is to do your work properly, as good as you can and how the world could look like if everyone did his/her job only 99% good. But I understand your point, it is impossible to be perfect all the time. Although, in my opinion, we must aim high and don't excuse ourselves with the attitude that 'nobody is perfect', because we could end up being average all the time.
Unknown said…
It depends on what we do. I think that we should always do our job well and work. We should develop, but also aiming for perfection in everything is quite a difficult matter and sometimes we have to stop.

I'm not a perfectionist. If something is good I'm accept it. But also in various matters or projects I try to improve good things to perfection, because I know that this is a project that I will develop and I would like to help myself.

Yes I use their products. I think they are well done, but unfortunately they are very expensive. I think they have great equipment, but of course they are not perfect.
Maciej Główka said…
I don't agree with Jon. In my opinion everyone should always do their job as good as they can. Of course, you should have common sense and don't spend 2 hours packing groceries in a bag so that they will be perfectly arranged. I think that you should aim for perfection in things you do for living.
Am I perectionist? I try to be at work. I'm a developer, so all my laziness will probably return to me in the future and I will spend much more time repairing some things than do it in proper way at first time.
I'm an owner of Iphone and Macbook. Are they perfect? I wouldn't call them perfect. They are very good, I really like their simplicity. However, If you need to, they have many hidden professional tools to use by developers for example.
If you want to do something right do it yourself. I would extend this phrase with "perfectly". If we admit some level of acceptance we implicitly accept the fact that something may go wrong later. When this moment comes then we should take some actions in order to fix it, anyways. I consider that this is much harder to fix something later because you can just simply forget it.

I consider myself perfectionist. If i like something I will do my best in order to do it. It’s just a pleasure for me.

I have been using Apple’s products for a long time and still using. I think that their products are good enough. Some years ago it was a phenomenon and they presented the whole new world of smartphones and computers but now I think they are just getting worse and worse.
Filip Sawicki said…
I disagree with Jon, perfectionism is definitely not the only way to do everything. It is a very dangerous thing to adopt one ideology and disregard opposite sides. I think that a balance is the way to go. We have to choose which approach works best for our project, that allow us to fulfill all constraints and requirements. In my opinion perfectionists are less successful, because usually are chasing something impossible to do, obviously there are some exceptions like Steve. I am more of a realist than perfectionist. I love to create projects according good programming practices and with great level of detail, but it takes lots of time to polish them enough to feel that satisfaction. For me it is better to leave something done good enough and focus on something more important. I am using many of Apple’s products and am very satisfied with them. They are perfectionist in their main business and technological domain, however there are lots of things to be improved with their additional services (mostly cloud, streaming and application development).
Vladlen Kyselov said…
For me perfectionism is something that should take part in my job sometimes, but something it has be done in opposite way, thats why I can not agree with the narrator. Perfectionism is the attitude of person to everything around. I guess this is just how someone show his attitude to what he is doing. I am definitely not a 100% perfectionist, but from time to time I just want to make something perfect or at least try to do my best.
I have never used Apple`s product and I think I will never use, because to my mind it doesn`t cost as much as it should and I don`t like their user oriented politics. I am not interested to much in what Apple devs are doing, but as I heard, they make updates which as a result makes old devices work slower, what makes people buy "brand new" Apple products.
Illia Shynder said…
I would rather disagree with Jon. It really should depend on what we are trying to achieve and what situation do we have. Sometimes making something acceptable and good enough fast is better, than never doing it because you haven't achieved perfection level. I'm not a perfectionist, I'm a programmer. It should work, and it should work good, that's the goal. Also I like everything to be clean, so that's what i try to do then.
I have used some Apple's products. My mother likes them. I would say that Apple's products are rather waste of money. They are giving functionality that I don't need( and I dounbt, that any of Apples users need it), and not providing me with what i really need. And they are far from perfect. Apart from good design they have lot's of bugs in last few years in all phone models and in some Pc's, but that's rather problems of software and operating systems. So yeah, Apple is not the best example for a perfect nor even good products
Perfectionism is a good thing but we must be careful to admire on it because I sometimes have cases when I do all time the same thing on same stage because I see every time how I can do something better. There is no limit to flawlessness so sometimes just need to know when we must stop and give a time for another.
Unknown said…
1. I think John is right in a sense. We must strive for perfectionism, because none of us likes how something goes wrong all the time, because someone has not done it as he should.
2. I think it depends on what I do. When I make projects or programs, I try to achieve perfection. When it comes to things that are less important and some detail does not work out, which is practically not important, I forgive .
3. Unfortunately, I didn't have the pleasure of using Apple devices because the prices are too high for value.
Marcin Górski said…
I agree with John. I think that perfectionism is the most important in our life. I don't like to start another plan if previous is not complete in 100%. Always I try to do my best. I think that lower acceptance level is not bad but you should be very careful about not making more things with lower level than these with higher. I have two Apple devices (phone and computer). I love their devices... design, system (user-friendly) and promotion is something what I like in that company. I can't say that they're making perfect devices but who can make it?
Marcin Mróz said…
I think that Jon didn't mean the things that are totally meaningless in your life like packing groceries, but those which are more important like your job or any other task that could matter to you or people surrounding you. I agree that in case of being developer, laziness really doesn't pay off. When you implement something poorly, it could strike back in the future.
Marcin Mróz said…
That's a good point. Very often doing something imperfectly entails possibility that we will have to fix it in the future. Of course there is a chance that it will be 'good enough' and we won't have to repair it, but why not do everything right when we are in the process of doing it and don't come back to it anymore once we did it?
Marcin Mróz said…
Yes, time is usually the thing that keep us from doing things perfectly. This is especially the case in companies when some product must be delivered in a specific period of time. But I think that if we have enough time to do something perfectly, we should do it. One good implemented feature is sometimes better than ten others that doesn't work properly or work, but not perfectly.
Unknown said…
Do you agree with Jon? Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything? Does lower acceptance level could be dangerous?
Well for me he is just a guy who like making all to extrime like some kind of a syndrome. In real live nobody need perfection and especially in software. It's simply not cost effective enough for business to bother.
I am for sure against perfectionism for things that don't meter that much. I think we should adapt the world for our lack perfectionism and not the other way around. Make self driving car so we can check text during the ride or some software to check sensors 10 times if its needed.
I don't use Apple products and as a programmer rather have more abilities with less stable phone then perfect experience but in small polished sandbox where I don't feel like an owner but rather as a product
Unknown said…
1. I did like the speech. I agree with a lot of his points. But I have my own evaluation system for judging whether something is worth the time and effort. Perfecting something is most important if we do this certain task every day.
2. In some areas I am. Although I do settle often for something that is good enough given specific circumstances.
3. Apple success certainly shows that Jobs approach to the developed products certainly worked out well for the company. And it is certainly necessary for companies that try do sell premium products. They must stand out and must be perfect to a little detail.
Yes i think we should always aim for the perfection. It doesnt matter what you do, you shopuld only do it with 100% (unless it's killing people he he). Lower acceptance could be an issue , I'd treat it like a trap, once you lower your demandings for your work it will start to be your everydayness.
I am a perfectionist, sometimes when there is no time and the project is not that important I accept some bad solutions but its not easy to agree with that. I hold to rule that If you want something to be done , you have to do it yourself. Yes I am using iPhone for 5 years, and before Steve Jobs death I would say that Apple products was perefect, but nowadays they lower theirs quality and its not that good as it used to be.
Unknown said…
Do you agree with Jon? Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything? Does lower acceptance level could be dangerous?
Yes I agree with him, and he convinced me to be more perfect in my daily duty. And yes, we should endeavour to perfection in everything. Lower acceptance level could be dangerous but when the lives depend upon it, in other cases probably could be dangerous only for ourselves.
Are you perfectionist? Or you rather don’t bother and accept something when it’s ‘good enough’?
I am trying to be perfectionist but maybe not in everything. I often accept things when are only good enough.
Have you ever used any of Apple’s products? Do you think they are perfect or not? Why?
I use those products of a long of time only because of that they are almost perfect. It’s having also some imperfections but in compare to other products Apple leaves competitors in the back.
Marcin Mróz said…
Apple stated that they were slowing down older iPhones to make their batteries' lifespan longer. For me it seems reasonable, because the older ones may not be powerful enough to handle all the new features included in new iOS versions. You can always switch off this 'slowing down' option if you want. ;)
Marcin Mróz said…
I don't like the fact that you put a non-equal sign between being a programmer and being a perfectionist. I believe that especally in this field we must aim for perfection to deliver the best software that we can. I'm really curious what are those functionalities that Apple provides and the ones that they don't provide. It's a pity that you didn't give any examples. ;P
Unknown said…
1. I strive for excellence where I know how to achieve this perfection, I carry out my work to the end and check it, make mistakes, but I bring everything to the ideal.
2. I'm not a perfectionist. Doing your work every day perfectly, bringing it to the end, there is still time to ideally lay out the towels on the shelf. For me, there are actions in which I adhere to the position "well enough", I do not always have time to perfectly iron the shirt and I can look "good enough" without it. To be a perfectionist in everything for me is a bust, the main thing for me is to love my work, and to fulfill it perfectly. If each of his actions to the end, regardless of the mistakes, the world will become more interconnected. So the driver of the car can monitor who is going to cross the road or whether the child is traveling somewhere close, but the pedestrian and the child must know the rules and stick to them. So by performing your task perfectly, you will help another person to accomplish his task 100%.
3. Of course, I used Apple products. I think that this product is for an amateur, there are suitable, there are those who choose another brand, and here there is no question of perfectionism.
Marcin Mróz said…
I also believe that every company now must aim for delivering perfect products. Nowadays there is so much competition that when you want to stand out you have to really make your product good in every little detail. This way you show your clients that you care for them and want to satisfy their needs in 100%.
Peter Clemenza said…
Do you agree with Jon? Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything?
Does lower acceptance level could be dangerous?

Mr Jon forget that perfection does not occur in real life. Everyone makes mistakes. Life is too short
to keep focusing on things that doesn't matter. He is another ((( smart guy))) that's bullying people
to reach new goals in their companies to make rich people get richer.


Have you ever used any of Apple’s products? Do you think they are perfect or not? Why?
They are perfect in stealing money from their users by making their phones unusable after updates.
Unknown said…
In my opinion, there isn't such thing as perfection. I'm not a fan of doing everything perfectly - I simply belive, that we should do our best in any activity that we take. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "leaving things that are good enough" - just do Your best, the best that You can achive with your skills, or ask someone better in that area to help You.
The best way is to set your standards on a decent level and stick to them - it gets easier to do things better every time You're doing them. Thats why we're seeing so many "perfect/fast workers" - it's just a pattern, routine. I'm not a type of perfectionist, but I can't stand when someone can did something better, but they simply don't bother to do that.
I've an iphone 8, this is my only product from Apple - I love it. Is it perfect? As I said befere, there isn't such a thing like pefection, everybody have their own standards. Someone things that this feature is perfect, well designed and peoples love it - but I think that it could be diffrent(not neccessery better, diffrent), more fitted to me - so, is it perfect though?
I don't agree with John. Aiming for perfection is not ONLY the way we should do everything. We need to understand that we are all humans and we are making mistakes. And what about perfectionism, i'm not perfectionist and i don't want to be "perfect". One thing i want to be perfect at is my work.
I have iphone and i think it is the best phone ever. People who never used iphone or macbook will deny this fact. Why? It's pixel perfect.
Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything?
No its not in fact trying to be perfect in everything you do can be a big letdown. trying to perfect everything can make your life not only harder but also worse. Your experience with everything is based on how well u think u did, trying to be perfect can hinder every experiences you have.
Im trying to learn to accept things as they come, im literally trying not to make everything perfect(as in i struggle in accepting failures and imperfections). Trust me not having to worry about everything, overthinking things and perfecting details in every aspect of your life can make it better.
But having your expectations set too low can also make your life and experiences worse. There is slim line of balance between perfection and imperfection that we should keep to not hinder our experiences.
I have never owned and apple product but ive used some. none of them are perfect, some of them make small to no sense. My biggest problem with apple products is their cost, they dont really feel worth it on top of that their closed app ecosystem is making it worse. One of the biggest pros of apple products is that while overpriced they are mostly reliable and easy to use thus their popularity.
Unknown said…
1. I partially agree with Jon that there are some areas where perfection is indispensable because they directly affect human life, e.g.: healthcare, air traffic control etc. where lower acceptance level are intolerable. However, there are lots of other areas where we are interested in optimal solutions in terms of quality, costs, time, effort and we can accept lower acceptance level. In many cases, those “good enough” solutions are optimal because they offer getting the job done with reasonable quality and cost.
2. I try to be a perfectionist in matters where quality is of the highest priority and it is worth it, in not critical cases I seek optimal or good enough solutions.
3. I use IPhone on a daily basis and I have to admit that it offers more simplicity and better OS performance compared to its competitors, especially when it comes to older smartphones. This doesn’t mean they are perfect, in my opinion the are a little bit overpriced.
Cecylia said…
I’m not a perfectionist. My mum is and I hate it. That’s why I live alone now . Apple products are simply , i can see how my dad I unable to use android but he prefers iOS
Patryk Górski said…
Yes. Being an perfectionist is a good way to live. People can count on you

Yes, I am. I am doing everything on 100% of my capabilities.

Yes. I am using Macbook Pro and an Iphone. They're great for me
Illia Lukisha said…
I'm a truly perfectionist. And i don't think that it is a bad statement to share. And i invoke you to be perfectionists i think it's a way to make an ideal thing in your life that can help another people to find themselves. I hate a phrase 'good enough'. If everything in our wolrd would be done in a way 'good enough', our products would be awful. And yes, i'm the iphone and macbook pro owner.
Maciej Nowak said…
It is definitely worth trying to do the best but achieving perfection is impossible as humans in their nature are imperfect. I can agree that we shouldn't settle down on low acceptance level, especially when human lives come into the matter. However, there will be always human errors, as not everything can be predicted and prevented. It depends on situation if I try to be perfect or just accept something when it's good enough. I have used some Apple's products and they are definitely not perfect, as nothing is perfect. Also i am used to other systems and using them wasn't convenient for me.
Unknown said…
1. I mostly agree with Jon and I also think that we should trying to make things perfect and the best as we able to do it. I am not sure that lower acceptance level could be dangerous but e.g. when architekt would have lower acceptance level when he builds a bridge it could be dangerous for us so Jon can be right.

2. I think that I am a perfectionist person and I really care to do things in correct way. I have difficulty to accept thing which are not good enough. For me it is my valuable character trait because as a programmer we should try to build the best software as we can from the beginning because a code refactor is very expensive and time consuming.

3. I have used Apple's products and even now I am writing this answer on my MacBook but I think that it is not a perfect product. I like it much but even a Apple makes a mistakes creating their products. ;)
Iman Masjedi said…
when you are losing time on many things, and it is not worth it.
The solution is to decide in advance how much time to give to…ironing a shirt or setting a table, or washing a car, or finishing a report.
yes, i am using the apple product and they are user friendly .
Unknown said…
Being a programmer, you cannot be a perfectionist. It's the worts aim you can have. "Good enough", the balance between client satisfaction, the effort you had to put to develop the feature and your code implementation quality. I think if you are smart enough, the lower acceptance level should not be the problem for you. By biology, I'm a perfectionist, but I learned how to end things, I'm so grateful to people who thought me that. I'm an Apple, fan boy. I have most of their products. I even bought their stock shares with the belief that they will become bigger and better in the upcoming years. I don't think they are perfect, but I can say they are well designed in most ways. They are playing with perfectionism in my opinion, trying to find new approaches to some problems - like the decision to remove headphone jack.
Unknown said…
1. Do you agree with Jon? Is aiming for perfection the only way we should do everything? Does lower acceptance level could be dangerous?
Well I think aiming for perfection is not the only way. We are humans, we make mistakes, we sometimes even like to make them. It is also our dominant way to learn new things, so making ones is inevitable. I see aiming for perfection as a good start for becoming robots, isn't it? Lower acceptance level is everywhere, take the schools as an example. You need actually 30 or 50 percent to pass your test or a whole subject, meanwhile in martial arts you need to master current level before you can move on. So no, lower acceptance level could not be dangerous.

2. Are you perfectionist? Or you rather don’t bother and accept something when it’s ‘good enough’?
I am personally quite precise about what am I doing and how I am doing it. I would call it perfectionism, but sometimes deep inside I feel uncomfortable when something I have done is not perfect. It concerns things I do for a living or things I care about, everything else which is "good enough" I accept and simply don't care.

3. Have you ever used any of Apple’s products? Do you think they are perfect or not? Why?
Yes, I have used many of Apple's products, specially laptops, music players and phones. They have obviously thousands of issues and bugs, as every device on this planet, so I don't get your question - are they perfect? Most of them is well designed and most of them works fine until Apple decides to cut you off and makes you buy a newer version of the product, but nevertheless, there is not perfect product.

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