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Week 7 [6.05 – 12.05.2019] Do we need higher education?

While being close to finishing my high school, it was absolutely obvious to me that a college degree is the next step if I want to achieve a success and find a job that would satisfy my ambitions. Moreover, I expected that I would learn skills that would be necessary to work as a programmer and it would be sufficient to find an entry level job position on the IT market. Back then little did I know that such a way of thinking was naïve.

According to Statistics Poland, the number of students of Polish universities including foreigners is getting slightly lower each year. There may be many reasons of such tendency and we can only wonder if one of them is the need of higher education on the job market. I have no information about other industries, but as an IT employee I am a witness of progressive crisis of the higher education in the field of IT. I have heard so many times that it is not necessary to have a diploma and all I need is a little bit of experience and self-involvement to get employed. On the other hand, one of my applications was refused because of lack of the diploma on the day I applied for a job, so the attitude of the employers still varies.

Source: https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaultaktualnosci/5488/8/5/1/szkolnictwo_wyzsze_w_roku_akademickim_2017-2018_dane_wstepne.pdf

One of the first reasons that come into my mind is the program of teaching which does not fulfil the needs of the market. The world of IT is very dynamic, and it could be hard to keep up with changes even for someone who is actively involved in software development and other fields of that market branch. Because of that, it is literally impossible that academic teachers would have knowledge that is always up to date, so the presence of the old technology among various school subjects is quite common. Another flaw of the university informatics is relatively low amount of practise compared to theory and matters that are loosely associated with IT.

Another factor is common and easy access to knowledge by means of the Internet and courses organised by private companies. There are plenty of “zero to hero” training sessions or online content that can teach a lot of skills in short time without worrying too much about theory or outdated technologies. If we compare traditional teaching of universities to that kind of development, it seems to be very old-fashioned and inefficient which is something the IT employers are aware of. Moreover, five years of work experience instead of studying is worth so much that the lack of diploma can easily become irrelevant.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CPOXR5aO04

However, like always there is another side of the coin. One of the issues with the lack of higher education despite having a lot of experience is the so-called glass ceiling. It could be extremely hard to reach the top positions without a diploma. We have to remember that being a graduate does not mean only the practical enrichment but also being more mature with wider intellectual horizons. If someone managed to earn a degree (with assumption of honesty), then he represents a respectable level.
Source: https://www.assignmentexpert.com/blog/why-do-we-need-higher-education/

To sum up – I would say that we can have two opposite approaches to that topic – pragmatic and idealistic. A pragmatic person who wants to find an IT job develops necessary skills by himself by working on projects and attending practical courses to gain experience and dive into the market fast. An idealist would try to combine self-development and higher education to become an intellectually richer person, which is something a pragmatic would not understand. Besides, I didn’t mention activities associated with studying such as science clubs and all sorts of additional, great values with people you meet in the first place - the so-called networking.


The topic is quite controversial, so I am curious of your opinion:

1.     If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
2.     Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
3.     What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
4.     (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?

Sources:

https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaultaktualnosci/5488/8/5/1/szkolnictwo_wyzsze_w_roku_akademickim_2017-2018_dane_wstepne.pdf

https://www.assignmentexpert.com/blog/why-do-we-need-higher-education/

Comments

Nataliya Tkach said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
I often asked myself that question. I would have gone to College, but I probably chose a different profession.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?

Yes, I think so, and it will happen in the near future. Now progresiruet distance learning and it will give the opportunity to study at any University in the world

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
The biggest disappointment is not being able to choose the educarion programs that we really need and are interesting. Our Academy is no exception.

4. (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?
When I chose the University I was promised that we choose when to go and what classes. In fact, everything turned out to be the same as in universities in Ukraine. Now I do not even know what I pay money for in our Academy ( SNM) 2 almost the same course how to make presentations and narrate. What's the point when I'm in the last semester of graduate school, I do not understand.
Anna Koca said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Of course I would not. Going to college is simply extension of our childhood. Also this is a great adventure, meeting friends, events and unforgettable memories. Unfortunately after those few more years of studying, we are staying with unemployment or the lowest National salary very often in companies which has nothing to do with out studies. In the end our bosses are our friends from high school who did not go to collage.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
If nothing will change the importance of studies, why would anybody want to study and condemn yourself on such poor conditions.

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
This is hard question because there is so much to change. For me the most important thing is that we should change learning methods. Students should not just learn dates, poems or mathematical formulas by heart. We should teach young people how to think and how to solve problems using creativity and independence.

My speciality is super-narrow, even in the world of IT, and requires a skillset, not usable anywhere else. Well, apart from some ancient software written in C++ 98. Anyways, having somewhat experience in game development and after gaining some intel from my connections in this industry I can assure you -- one never concerns about diploma ever. In fact, even completion of the high school is not necessary. Everything that matters is one's experience in the industry and shipped titles. That is it. (This is all from a programmer's perspective, although the situation with artists, designers and writers does not differ much). I totally agree about that education server to broaden one's horizons and rise an intellectual level. Although, during my work I have stumbled across some people that I highly doubt attended even mid school, and yet, they have made it to become a developer. That said, in my opinion, education server to help one set goals. For instance, if you always knew that you want to be a part of an IT world, but had a little knowledge of it, studying in a tech college will surely shed some light on a matter of things and help you guide around -- maybe you will realise that you always wanted to do backend, or frontend, or stiffing with databases, or whatever. You can tell only by trying it and studying.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Again? Why not! I'd love to learn something extra! Anyway, soon I'm starting to work on a PhD work, so it's as if my study does not end. Besides, science today (especially in the IT industry) never ends, because new things are being created all the time!

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
Honestly? In my opinion, a smaller number of students would result in more accurate and deep learning. People conducting classes would have more time and attention for the student than it is now.

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
I'm just in a good situation, because I teach and I see what is missing for students. Part of the classes requires the materials to be refreshed. I also try to go from time to time to interviews to check what employers are currently looking for.

4. (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?
Well, in that case the question is not for me: P
Bartosz Barnat said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?

I'm 100% sure I would go to college again just because I met so many of my best friends there and contact's that it is just increadible. Other thing is that I don't think I would stick to programming when I would learn it on my own way, college gives you that feeling that when you won't finish it you are not intellectual enough and it kept me going for a long time and is still making me study.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?

I don't think so. There is a lot of students on first and second year but only a few finish college with a degree but because of this first year students there will always be enough of them for universities.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?

I'm happy with teaching methods within a school that I'm in right now but I think it would be good to always have some extracurricular activities that you could write in your CV and there would be about new technologies that are popular in specific moment. I think becuause of that employees would see who was really learning something in school to be honest because we all know that at least 60% of students buy projects from someone else and they don't have the skills that they should have after graduation.
Do you think that choosing a different profession would change anything in scope of the quality of teaching? That's possible for sure, I would never know. I am not surprised you are dissapointed. We should be taught skills that we'll need at work, and even if we have to pay so much for it, we are not getting this. Instead schools are shelters for people who often do nothing and earn a lot of money. Not everyone of course, but you can find such people almost everywhere.
I would go to college again for the same reason, however if the level of education would drop significantly, I would think twice before I enroll. I only wonder when would anything change, because right now with so many students of the first year, people responsible for higher education are safe. I wish I would witness the moment when they would wake up and start to adjust the teaching program and methods to the real needs of students.
Well, everything you said is true. I agree with almost all points, because I have doubts if studying is essential for people who try to find their path. With poor teaching program, incompetent teachers and old technology one could possibly be discouraged from digging deeper. That's why I think that the most important way of self development is finding sources of knowledge by ourselves or at the workplace.
I see that you are one of the positive people who can do a lot of good things in order to improve the situation of Universities and students and I deeply respect that. You said that science in the IT industry never ends, but what if you can't learn new things at school, because the teaching program is outdated and inefficient? You can learn everything that they teach us for five years by one year of full time IT job. I wish you many successes as a PhD - maybe you are the one who would make a difference.
Ewelina said…
1. Yes, I would go to college again, although sometimes I have the impression that I have learned more at work than at university.
2. I think it will never happen. As you mentioned at the beginning of your career, studies in some industries may be unnecessary. Skill and commitment are important.
However, if you want to climb the career ladder, you can not achieve it without college education.
3. Maybe more practices. More practical tasks that can meet us in our future work.
4. Of course, my industry is very similar. In fact, most of the practical skills I learned at work.
Of course, creativity is something that can not be learned, but other skills are needed in addition to being crafty in graphics.
For example, the servicing of programs that nobody taught us during studies.
And just like in other industries, at the beginning you can do it without education, but in later career it may be needed.
I am happy that you are happy with the teaching methods, but don't you think that you could use the time you spend on studying at school to learn new technologies and gain work experience faster? Studying is fine and gives us many benefits, but in my opinion it should be repaired. The teaching program should be more flexible and people who do nothing and earn money should be erradicated from schools. I learned much at work and by online courses and I don't remember getting similar abilities at school which gives me an impression that many teachers of IT don't know enough because of lack of real experience other than academic. I don't want to offend anyone,because I know that there are many great teachers who do their best. I'm just dissapointed because I wasted so much time.

If I could turn back time, I would go to the same studies. During these studies I had several situations that I wanted to give up. Ultimately, I think that these studies are OK.

I do not have an opinion on this subject, but referring to the whole subject, I think that the concept of studying lost the strength that was once. The title does not mean anything. Untitled people can learn more and be better. It all depends on people and their determination.

Perhaps universities should be able to provide more obligatory practices that the school will organize. Experience is very much required at work i think.

Generally that was very interesting article. Unfortunelly we can do nothing with education system :(
I think that i would go to coledge, but not for educational reasons, mostly to get to other contries and see the world, that's what i actually do now on my masters.
Will universities at some point suffer from insufficient number of students? Actually they do now, and only so called "prestige" and openly misleading advertisement is the only thing that keeps them afloat, with a very minor exceptions. I think that Finland has a solution to make educational process much better for an employers and even for people themselves, and they start teaching in this special programmes starting from school. The best idea is ti put people in real working environment, give them responsibility and real tasks, instead of theoretical knowledge without any means of using it.
Yes, i think my decision helped me very much. When i started studies i had no idea about programming and i've learn many things. Also, i think universities won't have such problem. Just look at our Polish-Japanese Academy. Every year more and more new students are comming. I think those stats are mostly coused by more people choose to study in different country. Also i think i wouldn't change much. Maybe i would give more choice to students about exact courses they have to take durring semester but only on last 2-3 semesters as we often learn things we know we won't need. But for that i appreciate general knowledge.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
I think so, but I would never choose the same University or specialisation.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
Yes, I guess so. Or, maybe they will evolve and become more like these on-line academies" that you have mentioned in your article.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
Giving a real-life tasks, explaining it as for dummies, and free attendance of course.
Yes I would, mostly for connections in my working environment and basic knowledge of know how.
At some point yes, nowadays fashion of study is changing. Belief that you need to graduate to achieve success in life is a relic of old times when studies really mean something important.
I think teaching programm should be changed to be more valuable in future work. We do learn things that are useless in reall life.
Very interesting post. Answering your questions:

1. This is very difficult question. But after a long thought, I think that I'd back to college. Why? because I love learn new things and maybe I'd learn something extra new? Who knows? Unfortunately, maybe fortunately (?) we can't turn back time, so uff. Problem solved :D

2. Yes, but not all universities. Only some education speciality, for example philosophy. It's useless and for no-visionary people, no offense of course. This is my opinion. Some top and future study direction, for example IT, medicine, physics and astronomy there will always exist and there will be a lot of willing students.

3. What I'd change? The curriculum mainly, because this one is really bad at almost all universities. Outdated, some lectures are uninteresting.
1. Yes, 100%. Just because higher education is there to change the perspective on life, work and many other fields. It was never the place where you would learn how to work after earning the diploma.
2. I think there are already too many students. There are too many useless courses and going to collage won't satisfy everyone. Some people would do better in life with just going to work after the high school.
3. As I said, collage isn't here to prepare you for your duties in work. It is just impossible. The best thing it could do is to show students many carrier paths and let them choose what interest them the most.
1. I think that's because I learned a lot in college and think that I would come back again
2. A serious question, certainly private universities would lose it but I think that public universities would not have this problem
3. I would certainly change the curriculum slightly, adding new technologies that are required in the current job market. He stopped teaching primitive technology
and they will start using future tools
Anton Medvediev said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Yes, i think that all of us asking that question itself, i will go again, to understand that univercity it’s nothing and to do some connection, people who met worth it
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
Yes, it’s like if your shop had a bad location or bad prices, but i think it’s good
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
You need to speak with it market had some connecting with different it firm’s who can say where they have more people and etc
4. (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Rather yes than no. Unfortunately, some knowledge and skills can only be obtained directly from other people. But maybe I would change the faculty or college.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
If this happens, then not soon. Getting an education is not only a necessity in life but also a tradition. Many go to college because it is necessary, and not from the desire to learn. Well, there are were always people, who change their profession or expand their knowledge, they will also fill up the number of students in college.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
Unfortunately a lot. But, it is also worth understanding that I would change the program the way I would learn better. Perhaps, to other people, this method would not work.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
No, no, no and one more time "NO". College failed me. It's a waste of our time, it's useless.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
Of course yes, i'm definitely sure about that. Especially if we are talking about private universities. I think that in the closest future only top universitites will be alive (Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge and others.). Another part of universities will die due to insufficient number of students. People are getting wiser and one more day you will not need to go for 4 year of studying, when you will be able to attend 4 months of private courses.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
There are a lot of changes have to be made. I can't even count them. Teachers, subjects, adding more practical exercises, the way how to give information should be changed, make a process of learning subject like a game with achievements, education directions should be changed and so on.
If i could go back in time, i would definetly go to university again. For me there are personal reasons. I always wanted to be able to program diffrent things on a computer. Especially computer games. As you said, there are plenty of courses that would help me to archive what i wanted, but the university would give you a more wide perspective on possibilities waiting for you. Its true that some of the lecutres are old, and the industry may use diffrent tools, diffrent computer languages. But the knowlege that you gain at university, will make you able to adapt to these things at much faster rate than to a person that have never heard about diffrent aproaches to problems. If you think of getting a degree just to learn things that you would use in work, i think getting courses instead is a better idea. Courses would make you ready to work at certain fields with certain tools. University will make you understands ideas and principles of solutions rather the newest tools used in industry. But with the knowlege gained form degree, you will be able to learn things that you need in a very short amount of time. I do not think the universities will suffer of insufficient number of students. Maybe it will happen in universities that offer knowlege that nobody is interested in. I wouldn't change a thing in university program, because i do not think about university as a way to prepare a worker, but as a way to gain knowlege. I am not a master in IT, but i think there are proffesors that have worked in IT for so many years and they know better than me, what is important to know in this field.
If I could turn the clock back, I would go to Poland immediately after school. And so, I graduated from industrial technical school, the next was a university, in Ukraine, and now I'm here. I just lost my time. In Ukraine, I was taught the technologies that were already outdated. And after graduating from university in Ukraine, I only understood how everything works. A good university will not suffer from a lack of students. A good university will change the approach to learning and meet modern requirements. As it happens with our university.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Of course, why not it’s not like you can get better job or learn more without college. But after turning time back you still have all the memories and knowledge? if yes, I probably would choose another specialization.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
Some of them for sure. If there is insufficient number of students, then you don’t need that many universities some of them will be closed. But this is temporary after some time student will show up again and history will repeating itself
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
Maybe some classes that simulate actual work. I sometimes think that employers they really don’t know what they want themselves.
I’m sure that I would go to college again. When I was a child there was no other way for me than that. Computers were always a big part of my life so being and IT student it’s definitely my cup of tea. I don’t think there would ever be problem like insufficient number of students. Studying gives people not only knowledge but also friends and just more opportunities like traveling or possibility of finding job easier. That’s why people still will want to study on universities. For me mostly state universities should change teaching program. In my opinion it’s old and doesn’t make people able to start a good job after a degree.
ExoKuzo said…
I would go to college again no doubt, i would probably change my focus on what to learn for after school.
There will come time when colleges will become unnecessary due to how much knowledge , tutorials etc are out there on the internet.
To make teaching program more useful for employers can be done only when they themselves do the teaching, we should involve them more in the teaching program.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?

Yes, I would definitely go to college again, It’s a great place for many things for example in collage you can network with many people, which can be helpful in your career down the path.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?

Yes, I think that its might happen much earlier than we think.

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?

I think that it should be more focused on building real practical skills, and not only pure theory.
s18716 said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
Most likely not, I am satisfied with my education. If you mean that if you were not satisfied, then most likely I would go. I think there you can get not only vocational education, but also a bunch of other skills, or, for example, get new acquaintances. This is a good time of life. Well, it's over, if you feel more romantic about it.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
I think yes. Since this is also a business. Each of them will suffer separately, but I do not think that this will bring harm to society. Although it can cause damage to the state budget, since so many universities are under the tutelage of the state.

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
Embed more practice of course. Then the material will be very well sorted. Since in the end, it turns out that a large number of curriculum does not find application in real life.
Topic that you set abroach was on my mind lately becouse I also realized that possessing deegre is not always the best way to find a job. I'm currently an graphic freelancer and most of my clients don't really care about my deegre becouse they are more consern about quality of product that I can create. Moreover businesses that interest me was rather pathetically presented on my lessons. Game design was a fancy name where I had to create scene using two old models which was completely unrelated to the actual marketplace demands. On the other hands I can find a lot of useful tutorials on the internet that are created by people actually working in the industry so to be honest if I could put the clock back I would propably resign from deegre for some time and learn the skill first.
Certainly, subjects that seems to be useless at future work very often help us to see the bigger picture of our field. Also, you should remember that aim of studies is not to produce worker, but engineer, which is something more than 9-5 code-clapper.

It's probable scenario for IT fields, entry threshold to the job market for junior programmer gets lower and lower.

I would add special classes, which are consulted with companies and job-oriented.
Employers highly demand IT graduates, why not let them directly affect a curriculum of studies and show students what is expected from them.
Adam Nguyen said…
I would surely go back to college again. I met here some of my best friends. But if I have an opportunity to go back in time I think I would choose a different specialisation in IT.

I think it is highly possible in the near future. There are more and more people deciding to go to work rather than continuing studying.

I think more practical tasks and opportunity to choose elective subject would be a great idea. Sometimes we must learn something at the university that we won't ever use in our jobs. Allowing students to choose elective subjects probably would solve this situation
This comment has been removed by the author.
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
For sure, yes. It was very effective.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
In my bachelor specialization (applied mathematics) it already suffers.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
I would like to add more group projects to teach students how to work in teams on difficult projects that could be applied in professional life. Unfortunately, I didn't have it at my previous university.
4. (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?
I am an IT student :)
Adam Sukiennik said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?

Sure, becouse its only way to make my dreams come true, other way it could be harder.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?

In my opinion they won't suffer in that case becouse, in smaller group You could gain more knowledge and more attention from proffesor, in general smaller group has better notes.

3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?

I think that employers of schools need to have free way of teaching, i had one Teacher who was Phisics Teacher, He always divides lessons on practical with experiments and theoretical with discribing of these experiments but not in way of Teacher says and we write, it was disscusion about it and on last 15 min we had time to write down eveything in our notebooks
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?
I would definitely go to the university! I assume that I would choose maybe different specialization or university, but I'm not 100% sure. I studied 1 year on the University of Warsaw and it was really cool, but there was no such thing as Culture of Japan, only Philology of Japanese. If I could study this specifc culture at UW, I would do it.
2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
I don't think so. Maybe the smaller one, or the private one, but bigger universities won't suffer for a long time. I think there are the times, when people are keen on going to college, and there are the times, when people choose going to work immediately.
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?
Absolutely nothing. I don't consider university as a place that always had to prepare you to work in the future.
4. (Question for non-IT students) Do you see similar problems in your branch of industry?
Illia Lukisha said…
1. If you could turn back time, would you go to college again?

I don't think so. I think higher degree a it is now is obsolete and unnecessary. But I didn't have this understanding earlier. But if person have objectives and goes to college purposely college ca make sense and impact.

2. Do you think that at some point universities would suffer from insufficient number of students?
3. What would you change in the teaching program to make it more attractive and useful for employers?

I think changing the teachers in most cases can do education better, because old professors that that stuck in 19th century cannot teach you 1 year old technology, methodology or framework, because they aren't practicing their knowledge in real word.
1. Yes, I would. I don't regret that decision even though it gets very hard at times.
2. I'm sure that can happen in the future, it's becoming harder and harder to satisfy students who expect more from their schools than ever before.
3. I would involve employers in the education process- let them describe their needs and help them train future employees that they will want to hire- graduates get jobs, employers get employees. Seems to me like an easy way to get two birds with one stone.
4. I'm an IT student.

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