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Week 4 [05-11.11.18] - “Why city flags may be the worst-designed thing you've never noticed”

Generally, flags and national symbols are very important as they represent and symbolizes a country. In many countries flag have also a special day – in Poland it is celebrating on 2 nd of May.
During some holidays such as Independence Day on 11 th of November, Warsaw Uprising on 1 st of August or many others we can observe streets covered with flags, symbols and national colors. This shows how important national symbols are and how much people are connected to symbols of their countries.
Study of flags and symbolism is called Vexillology.
Roman Mars is professional radio producer which is also keen on flags design and in his TED talk he deal with the issue of the worst designed flags. He reveals five rules about how to design a proper flag and believes that those rules should be applied to design in total.


I encourage you to answer below questions:
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?
2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?

Comments

1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?
I would not, it is simple and I would leave it as it is, but I would change the flag of Monaco and Indonesia so that they are more different from our flag :D

2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
No, I do not. I think I don't need to present my patriotism in such a way.

3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?
Hmm, I think flags should be without barely visible symbols.
Unknown said…
I would never be in favour of changing the colours of our national flag because of the historical aspect in which our flag meant so much.
Yes, there is always a flag on my balcony, especially now in November.
I don't think I have an idea what else could be added to this list, everything that is most important has been taken
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I totally agree with you. Monaco and Indonesia flag can be quite confusing for people to actually remember the difference. I mean not for Polish but for foreigners for sure.
In this examples difference between Monaco and Indonesia flags is even less distinctive as the only difference is proportion and symbolism of colors which are not so obvious without specific knowledge.
Thank you for your comment. I am glad to hear that you remember about symbolism on our national holidays. In Warsaw, especially on Warsaw Uprising Day and Independence Day those symbols and national colors are exceptionally visible and that is a good example of how important those symbols are particulary during those specific holidays.
Finally, somebody has spoken about importance of a flags. And not only about countrys' flags, but the cities as well. Heraldry overall has a colossal importance.

Personally I just love my city's flag. It reflects its history so well, and each element there has a significantly deep meaning. Here, you can see for yourself: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Flag_of_Dnipropetrovsk_%28before_2012%29.jpg

The bottom blue curvature is what I like the most about it -- it represents the waters of a Dnipro -- the river, that gave life to Ukraine many centuries ago (the location of Kiev, the first capitol of the Kievan rus, was chosen because of the river's close proximity). The white background stands for clear mind, innocence and bright ideas.

In the middle of the flag is simplified coat of arms. The deep blue colour has several meanings. First of all -- it is one of colours of a national Ukrainian flag, thus it resembles the bond between the city and the country's symbolism. Secondly -- it is the main colour of the Yekaterinoslav Governorate coat of arms. Dnipropetrovsk was named in honour of the empress Catherine the Great (her palace can be still found and visited in the city). At the times of the Great Russian empire Yekaterinoslav was the second capitol, and the empress spend a lot of her time there.

Finally, the silver sabre and arrow crossed under three stars. Sabre -- the traditional weapon of the cossacks, significantly important figures in the history of Ukraine. Silver colour represents clear mind and purpose. Stars represent the readiness of the cossacks to protect the city any time, even under the cloak of darkness. Ironically, after the events of 2014 insurrection, the Dnipro is now just at the new border of the country, a couple hundred kilometers away from the enemy.

As regards of the design rules presented by mr. Mars I think that my city's flag is perfect. It is distinctive, simple, has no seals or writing. Although, the sabre and arrow have a little details on them, they are still recognizable. What is your opinion about it?
Exactly, there is also the Flag of Singapore which is also red above white, but in this case what distinguish it from the others is the crescent moon and stars on the red part.
I haven't been in Dnipropetrovsk and I haven't seen the city or it symbols before but after checking I agree with you that according to mr. Mars rules about proper design your city flag is perfect.
As you said, it is simple and has no seals or writing but use meaningful symbols and colors which refers to what they symbolize. I think it automatically create a feeling of civic pride that the city you are living in is symbolised by properly design symbol.
Thank you so much for sharing your city flag and for its symbolism explanation :)
Unknown said…
I would not change anything in our flag, I identify with it like the whole country. our grandparents fought for such a flag.
I celebrate national holidays the most and the flag is the most important part of 11 November and I always use it.
I think that no new products are needed for flags, they are simply unnecessary
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?

No, I think it looks great with it's simplicity and symbolism.


2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
Unfortunately no.

3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?

Nothing I guess - I would rather say, that awareness about flags symbolism among the people should be higher
Would you change something in flag design of your country?
Certainly I would not change anything in our flag, because it has historical and patriotic value.

Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
I always celebrate if I only have occasions. It seems to me that every patriot should have the flag hang in front of the house, as it is in the United States.

What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?
At the moment I have no idea what would be added to the Roman Mars list,
i think everything is here
Patryk Górski said…
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?

No, I think it is fine and it shouldn't be too "frisky". It has to be minimalistic and it is great as it is right now for me.

2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?

Yes. I always try to remember about the most important national days and celebrate them.

3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?

Well, I think that it is okay as it is - I do not see any improvements for it
Ahmed Elsawi said…
This topic very interesting to me and I love it, generally I agreement with taking care also from the cities flags because it's also important for emotion for the citizens of the city also, so flags of cities so important such as the country flag.

...................................................
Now, about the questions?
...................................................
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?

I wouldn't, it is familiar to me and for citizens of my country, we understand what this flag meaning because it has a connection with our history.
...................................................
2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?

No, I don't celebrate national holidays, because part of my heart carrying my country flag, so I don't need to celebrate national holidays in specific days.
...................................................
3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?

the officials of the flags (country/cities) design must interest at design such as designs of international brands logo.
Nataliya Tkach said…
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?

Honestly, I don't know. Many countries on the flag have 2 or 3 colors or geometric shapes and I like it.

2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?

No. But that doesn't mean I don't love my country.

3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?
Nothing needs to be added because the flag is the identification of the country.
Flag of my country is very good, I would not change anything. It's simple, easy to remember and fits well into polish history. But like many comments, before mine, there are few flags of other countries, that are too similar to each other, like Monaco and Indonesia. If you would show me both at the same time, I'm pretty sure that I can't guess which flag belongs to which country.
I love my country and it's flag, and I usually celebrate national holidays, but in my own way. Eg. I put the small flag or another national symbol somewhere, and that's it. I'm not going to go and walk in marches with a big flag and singing national songs.
Presented rules are simple and in my opinion, enough. Flags should be as simple as possible. Few colors in simple shapes, and that's it. Some big, characteristic, easy to draw symbol is okay, but nothing more.
I agree that awareness about flag symbolism should be higher. It happens that sometimes people overuse some symbols or use them in wrong situations or even sometimes without knowledge or the specific symbol. It usually happens that men tattoo symbol of Polska Walcząca or it is very common to see this symbol as graffiti on building walls. I think putting symbol everywhere is a profanation and shouldn't be continued. People should be aware of symbols they use
In US people are patricular about their flag. During any national holidays you can easily notice how proud they are and how important for them the flag and its colors are.
I totally agree that every patriot should hang a flag in front of the house. I heard that some years ago it was very common to see flags on each balcony, today - unfortuanatelly not.
Personally, I am fully satisfied with a flag design of my native country - Ukraine. There is a myth, that the flag shouldn't be blue-yellow, but yellow-blue, that is, that the Ukrainian flag has been turned over and that all the troubles and misfortunes will befall the state. Photos, posters, postcards from the time of the Ukrainian National Republic show that both versions were used. However, it has been documented that in 1918 hetman Skoropadsky approved the upper blue strip and the yellow lower at the official level.
Despite past discussions, the question of what the flag should be, is relevant today. During the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, I noticed, some organizations used a yellow-and-blue flag, which supposedly symbolizes the sun and water, and they assured - if flip over, then "the water could put out the light". However, supporters of the state flag claim that blue is a sky, and yellow - ears of wheat. To sum up , I think, our flag has long history and changing dramatically design of it - rather bad idea.
Yes, I celebrate our national holidays and pretty regular I can wave a flag.
To be honest , I wouldn't add anything , because design of a national flag is a private affair of the country.
Yes, I totally agree that flag shouldn't be too motley. According to Mr. Mars rules about the proper design it should be so simple that a child can draw it and Polish flag is minimalistic so there is no problem with child drawing it.
Yes, I also agree that the historical meaning of a symbol is on the first place. I can not imagine to have different flag than the one than our grandfathers died for. As you said, flag is the most important during bank holidays, especially 11th of November but not only. Happy to hear that you celebrate it in a proper way:)
Unknown said…
1. No ,I wouldn’t change the color, neither the design of the flag. The meaning is strong and simple. The white represents the hope for peace by all of Poland's people, while red recalls the many struggles for freedom over the centuries.
2. No, I don’t celebrate the national holidays.
3. No improvements are needed.
I understand that feel you don't need to celebrate national holidays. From my perspective they are usually just an anniversary of historical events. They symbolize some specific dates on which in the past some important events took place. In my opinion, by celebrating those holidays in any way we prefere, we show our patriotism and it becomes a commemoration of those historical events. To not to forget about history and to honor people which took place in those events - I think we should celebrate and I encourage you to give it a try :)
I wouldn't, I like the colors and it's simple.

Yes, I do. I celebrate Independence Day almost every year. The flag is essential.

I think that everything what is the most important and how the ideal flag of the country should look like has already been said by Roman Mars.
Many countries use more than 2 colors on their flags. As you said, sometimes there are geometric shapes but sometimes also other symbols important for specific country. The more colours, symbols and geometric shapes the more difficult flag become. According to Mr. Mars rules of properly designed flag - flag should be so simple that child could draw it and with more and more colors and symbols it is not so easy to manage.
From the other hand, historical value is the most important and if society is used to specific flag design it shouldn't be changed just to make it more simple.
When i was watching this video for the first time and I have heard all the rules I realized that Polish flag is perfect example of a properly designed flag. The most important is of course the symbolism which is the clue in national symbols so people understand what is a meaning of it, but the design meets all rules which was mentioned. It is distinctive, so simple that a child can draw it and has no writing on it. Simply perfect.
The meaning is a clue in all national symbols. In Polish history there were times where we couldn't use them freely so I encourage you to use them now when we are living in peacetime and commemorate people who gave up the ghost to let us live in better times.
Thank you for your opinion. I think when you celebrate national holiday you dont need to show off and attend to marches or dress up in flag colors and sing national songs in the first row. That is what politicians do ;)
It is more about being aware that particular day is special and remember why it is so special and thank to who. It is more about commemorating historical events and people who took part but the way of doing it should be personal choice. Happy to hear that you remember about national holidays and celebrate them in your own way
Unknown said…
I wouldn't change anything, I don't think that such colors should ever change.
The flag colors are one and should always be in our hearts. This is our story and we can't change it.

I like national holidays but I'm rarely on marches or other festivities.
Wow. Thanks for sharing your flag history! I haven't been aware of that.
I assume that the changes even in order of colors would be confusing for people and may lead to many misunderstandings as now it is rooted in your culture and traditions. I agree with you that any changes are not a good idea.
Unknown said…
I don’t think that I would change something in flag design of Poland. Two colors - white and red have simple transfer. White color means purity and immaculate, red one is a symbol of fire and blood and define brave and valor. Celebration national holidays by flying a flag of Poland is obligation every patriot. I’m one of them so of course I always celebrate every national holydays that way. I agree with every rule which Roman Mars presented. Flag should be simple and easy to remember. Moreover flag should relate to the area where it comes from.
Unknown said…
1. I think I wouldn’t, because I’m pretty used to our flag and I think it looks minimalistic and elegant.

2. I do celebrate some national holidays, like the Independence Day for example, but I do not fly a flag. There is nothing wrong in it, but I’m just not doing it.

3. I think that most of the important ideas were represented and I don’t think I could think about new ones.
Flag designs that disobey the at least 3 design rules are at least colorful in a variety of ways
The worst weakness the 5 rules of vexillology has is that those same 5 rules can really turn against you, look at half of the flags of Europe, they look so ridiculously boring that I'd actually be a bit ashamed about them. Yes, they have followed all 5, but was it worth it?
But then, who really cares if flags look ugly or not...
Unknown said…
1. Would you change something in flag design of your country?
I basicly have no idea what would I change, I'm not very creative :D I think that polish flag is just okay, so simple with 2 colors that it doesn't need change :D
2. Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
Hard to say.. Yes and No... On the building which I live in there is always the polish flag at the time of national holidays. But as I'm living in flat I don't fly our flag myself. I would do if I were living in the house.
3. What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?
I would give freedom. It would be a good way to rise creativeness :D For example: Japanese flag with katanas and shurikens. Imagine that :D I don't really know, it's a weird topic to discuss about I don't really know WHO is standing behind making an official flag for the country, but I would give such an artist a freedom, to express it's country to the fullest.
I'm don't know much about flags in general, so I Roman's presentation very interesting for me. But I can't really offer to add any other rules of my own, Roman did very good job explaining them. After all he's a specialist :)
I like our country's flag, it's simple and yet pretty powerful. I wouldn't want to change anything about it. I personally don't use the flag to celebrate, but it's always nice to see them during manifestations - like today's Independence Day march.
I think that our flag is cool, but i would add some colours and some shapes just to make it more interesting and eye-catching. I don't usually hang a flag on any national holidays because I don't have one and I don't have a place where I could hang it, but I know a lot of people does that plus city hang a lot of flags in public spaces so it's enought for me. I think that for me flying a flag is just not that important in holidays celebration. I cna't think of anything better to add to mr.Roman Mars's list.
I not very patriotic at all. It is not mean that I don’t love my country, I love the country where I born. But I have never seriously celebrated national holidays.
If I could change something in flag design of Ukraine I will change nothing. It's perfect! :)
And I have no idea what to add to Roman Mars list about proper design, sorry.
> Would you change something in flag design of your country?
Most likely no. Ukrainian flag is quite simple, clear and recognizable.

> Do you celebrate national holidays by flying a flag of your country?
Usually not. I do not see much patriotism in this act.

> What other rules would you add to Roman Mars list about proper design?
Probably nothing. Roman is a professional designer of flags, I trust him :)
Unknown said…
I think that flag of my country had a great design. I dislike combination of these two colors: blue and yellow.But the thing that I really like is meaning of colors and their position: blue on the top and yellow below. Blue means Ukrainian sky and yellow open wheat fields.

Unfortunately, I don't celebrate national holidays. Not because I don't like my country, my city or people that leave there. I don't celebrate national holidays because often they have political context, there are always groups of people with one fake idea - if you go to the parade you are a true patriot of you country. So if you are a true patriot of your country you don't need to clean after yourself.
Bartosz Barnat said…
I don't think I would change anything in my cointry flag. I think it's simple in design and has our national colors so I think it fits perfectly. When it comes to celebration of national holidays I take part in them but not always. Sometimes I put a flag on my balcony or go march with my contryman but nowadays I think I'm going far away from that habits. I don't think if I would add anything to Roman Mars list. I think that every flag was designed with a precision and countryman wanted to say something creating it. I think that there should be no rules when it comes to flags and everyone should be able to create whatever they please.

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