Dear Students,
As the local elections are coming, we are going to watch the Tedtalk presentation There is no such thing as not voting at https://www.ted.com/talks/eric_liu_there_s_no_such_thing_as_not_voting
Read the article as well at https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/opinion/voting-should-be-mandatory.html. Comment on them and present your opinions and experiences.
As the local elections are coming, we are going to watch the Tedtalk presentation There is no such thing as not voting at https://www.ted.com/talks/eric_liu_there_s_no_such_thing_as_not_voting
Read the article as well at https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/opinion/voting-should-be-mandatory.html. Comment on them and present your opinions and experiences.
Comments
Overall politics is very sketchy business and most people do not want to be involved in it, but I agree with Mr. Liu that voting is important. If you don't want to make choice of your own than somebody will make that choice for you. Most of the Europeans are lucky because they live in countries where freedom of speech still exists and thus exists freedom to make your own decision on who will rule the country, others who are afraid of judgment and punishment of the regime can't even dream about such thing. If we have the opportunity to vote than, in my opinion, that means that system is not all broken and we still have a chance to make things better.
Also I agree with you when it comes to duty of voting - it is important and we should vote. On the other hand it's unknown for me why for example in our country there is only like two candidates, which are disliked by almost everyone and still only those two candidates matters.
1. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t- we know that those candidates are bad, but we are affraid that others are worse. And we are so scared that even thinking about voting for a "fresh one" makes us sick.
The truth is that we demand brave and hard decisions from elected cadidate but at the same time we cowarldy vote for the same candidates/ political parties over and over again.
2. Politics is boring for most of the people. It's easier to just vote for the one you heard about even when the only thing you know about the person is his/her name and party affiliation.
It is nice to see people here, in Poland, so engaged in a political life of their country. Even among the young, there are many, who already have their own strong opinion and political views. No need to explain the importance of voting to them, which is wonderful.
I'm 22 years old and I was voting only once in my life. Why I have chosen not to vote? I didn't vote because all I can hear from others that there is no-one worth out vote, that there is no-one who will see to what they vowed for. I think that this way of thinking came from a way elections are presented in our country and from what people are saying and what they saying is that no matter what happends there is always a huge group of people that won't be satisfied and won't accept the choice of others.
Encouraging people to vote is obviously right thing to do. But voting should be represented as a responsibility. Because voting just for kicks and giggles could be even worse than no voting at all. It concerns every kind of elections. You want something to be achieved, you do some research to choose the best candidate. And all this festival-like stuff has nothing to do with elections. It will only distract people from what is really important.
Andrzej Sapkowski once wrote that "If I have to choose between evil or different evil,I prefere not to choose at all" and I think this sentence is very close for people who decide not to vote. However, no decision is still a decision and if we dont choose for ourselves someone will do it for us. Skipping voting and not caring for the future of our city or even country is simply stupid and irresponsible.
When I was younger and I didnt have voting rights I remember that there were a lot of advertisements to encourage people to go voting. However, my parents were always skipping by saying that they have only one vote which won't change anything, which is not important and there is no sense in voting. I think many people follow their way of thinking.
Now, when I have voting rights I always participate hoping that my vote really counts and I encourage you to do the same tomorrow.
However nowadays it hard to believe that elections are not corrupted all over the world especially such as presidential elections. Because in the era of information technologies counting of votes becomes automatic to exclude human mistakes and corruption. But at the same time, it's also a risk that machine or software which counts, presents election votes could be corrupted by malware. As it's known from interviews with Jhon McAfee, founder of McAfee Association company, that he was asked to create such malware.
Not voting is a self-fulfilling prophecy. My vote does not have any power so I don't vote. But if you don't vote, you will have no power. And the power will belong to those who vote.
I understand Mr. Liu idea about making voting a joyful event everyone wants to participate. It's a noble idea, it's based on american history. Democracy in Poland is very new form of government in context of 1000 years of polish history. That's why I think making voting obligatory would change how we see democracy and how it helps us to make the future better for everyone.
Sadly I doubt we will get there yet - currently too many people at the position to make it happen don't care and actually profit from us not voting. But there's one thing we can do right now. Vote! Make over people vote as well! Tell everyone "Your vote is important!". And then, hopefuly, it will also be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Mr. Liu and Waleed Aly mentioned important points.
If you look at the society in Switzerland,The most important decisions of the society are identified in the ballot. All citizens have the right to make their views on important community decisions and to be directly involved.
in the other hands,Media and news (false and fake) can have a direct impact on directing public opinion towards a particular goal or outcome.
This is an important issue we are facing now.
There are a lot of people that believe in fact that their vote could change their future. I don’t think so. If you don’t try to change the future on your own, there is no sense to hope that the elections do.
We shouldn't expect any change unless we start ourselves. We shouldn't rely on politicians promises, we should take life into our hands.
I was not once in the elections myself, because I have no idea who to vote for and I think it is because I am not from Warsaw. So my possibility of returning home 600 km only to vote or maybe about a few days or even two weeks earlier to go to the office and declare my presence in Warsaw facilities. Looking at the fact that I do not know who to vote for, I always forgive. I know that this is not correct and somebody can tell me immediately that I am an idiot, etc. , but I have the right to do so
Also I agree with Eric that today we hadn’t such thing as not voting. Nowadays voting can help people choose future of their country and if you don’t vote someone will choose this future instead of you. In my opinion it’s a wrong position to not vote.
But on the other hand, nowadays voting look like you choose the less evil. If you not vote it’s bad but vote randomly it’s even worse. Everyone should choose candidate thoughtfully.
I always vote for candidates which has something to say and their plans are possible to do during their term. How much are we naive that we believe in promises like 3 new metro lines or flats for everyone? We don't like to hear the truth and when somebody say it we call him an idiot.
Voting and our political opinions are individual, but there is a tendency (specially in our country) that people start to argue about them and in the result political conversations ends up in a fight, not constructive analysis. That is why it is also important to understand that voting should connect people, strengthen the bonds between them, but not separate and them.
So what is the election - the right or the obligation? In my opinion, there is a fine line between voluntary and compulsory. On the one hand, the majority of citizens are convinced that going to the polling station is, above all, a right. Those citizens who do not care in which society, in which state they live and will live, believe that this is an obligatory right for every person: for the mind and consciousness it is a right, and for conscience it is a duty.
However, I don't really agree that "not voting is for suckers". Not voting is, like Mr. Liu said, also a vote - however saying that not voting means willingly handing over power to others is, while not neccessarily incorrect, only one way to look at things. Deciding not to vote could also be caused by people thinking that voting won't change anything, and that no matter who comes into power, things will not get better - which is an entirely valid opinion, whether someone agrees with it or not.
As for Mr. Aly's article, I think it presents an interesting alternative to Mr. Liu's talk. Implementing compulsory voting would have a similar effect - significantly increased voting turnout. However, I feel like making voting mandatory could have a negative effect on the poorer side of the populace - it's entirely possible that the reason why the poor vote less is not because they are uninformed, but simply because that they can't afford to spend the time to do so. One suggestion about this that I've once heard is introducing small, symbolic payments for showing up to vote, in order to make voting more viable for those who struggle to make ends meet.
I don't think that implementing both Mr. Aly's and Mr. Liu's points at the same time is possible, as making voting compulsory would run counter to making voting fun, as it would make voting seem like more of a job than a fun activity. Which of them would be better is debatable - Mr Liu's way of doing things would be more difficult both to implement and maintain than simply making voting compulsory, but, if successful, would most likely have a more positive effect on the populace in the long run.
For me, it is an opportunity to change something, to make our lives better or just to express our opinion.
But we should not force people to vote. Because they will do everything to avoid it. In my opinion, we have to educate people and explain why they should vote and why it is so important.
If we are forced to do something, for example, homework or a boring project we just do it as quick as possible so we can just forget about it and do something else. Same goes with voting, people would just vote for the first candidate on the list because it is the fastest way to get this over with.
Maybe we should change the way how we vote? Maybe we should introduce an option to vote with your mobile phone so you can vote in 30 seconds?
As a manager of over 15 people in my company, I often want to consult a decision with my team by conducting a vote. After pitching the idea I am certain that all people have an opinion on a particular topic. However, when it comes to the actual vote, I often find myself in a situation where the turnout is so low, that I must make the voting mandatory to get the actual results.
People often don’t vote because they don’t want to feel responsible for the outcome and are willing to let others vote to keep their hands clean, even if that kind of thinking makes no sense or has no ground.
In my opinion, mandatory voting is an idea that sounds more horrifying than it actually is. If it’s feasible both in a country that governs its whole continent and also in a small group of fewer than 20 people, it will be feasible in a small country like Poland as well.
There is a really strange thing in the video about voting - no bright ideas. He says that TV screen and internet are result of people's disunity. That's true and that's calls Scientific-Technical Progress. When I 'v started watching the video I had one question in my mind: "Is Mr. Liu engaged Democrats or Republicans. I found answer later in the poem that he read to the audience. So Mr. Liu is a democrat.
There is some information about different artists that motivate people to vote. Is that fact is positive? What's about well known convention: "Art should not be about politics"?
Also speaker says a lot about enjoyable voting, that voting should be a passion, that voting is a special feeling. I totally disagree with him. In my opinion voting is your's duty as a citizen of your country. If you don't want to see some political party in the government, you just go to elections and vote for opposite. That's all.
Finally I want to say about the main idea of article - mandatory voting. As I know failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty. So people's freedom of choice costs just 20 dollars in Australia. It's quite cheap, isn't it?
Is shocking that you have to only Convince 1/4 of people to get elected.
Today in Poland during the election attendance has increased by 2% in comparison to 4 years ago. I hope in the next four years Attendance will also increase.
One thing that I would consider to change is banning all election poll, which can distort the true picture of which candidate or political party is popular.
From my experience, I can say that everybody in my family, including me, have always participated in the voting.
To be honest, I voted today but only for a village head because I'm not from a town. It can be inconsistent to my previous words but I was writing about main voting... parliament etc. I hope that my candidate will win :)
What about mentioned article? It is very interesting. I have never thought about voting in previous decades and it is a little different to present situation. I don't like exaggeration and If I have to choose I would take second option without "fireworks" :)
From my perspective, voting should not be obligatory because everyone has the right to choose and cannot be forced to take part in one event or another. What should be done without any doubt is increasing awareness of how each vote is important and ensuring that voting will be more easy to access for example via the internet.
Many people don’t vote. It doesn’t matter how big the scale is, they are just afraid. Some of them don’t want to show others what’s their opinion, they don’t care, and sometimes they just have no idea what will be right. But when we’re not voting, we shouldn’t then comment on the final result, and we can’t expect the result to be as we would like it, because we lost a chance. We had our time to vote, but we didn’t.
Voting shouldn’t be mandatory. People mostly often don’t like doing things that others tell them to do. Very often it just feels boring, stupid. People just like to be kings of their lifes. They should know that it’s their informal duty to vote, because one vote can cause a huge change and without it, something good thing may never happen.
Should voting be mandatory? No. It is a privilege that we have and it should be treated as such. If we make voting mandatory it would mean that we failed as democracy, forcing citizens to participate in voting. If you punish society because they do or don’t do something it means that you have a nation that can’t decide on their own. It means that democracy is not a privilege that we want but something forced on us. Not voting is bad but we should teach people to vote, why they should do that and not force them.
Campaigns, promises, and ads in nearest future will be mainly aimed at older people,
So your vote won’t make generally any difference, and not only because you are young, but because (((they))) won't allow people from outside
who follow political news and have strong political views (especially older citizens), but on the other hand on the last elections in Poland, voted only 50,92% (including 3% invalid votes) of entitled to vote (source: Wikipedia).
Citizens’ interest in the election is only one part of problem and is not as easy as we can think.
In my opinion more serious issue is that often we have to choose “less evil”.
Situation when you look on all of candidates and none of them is in your opinion a good candidate is much bigger problem.
Returning to not voting. I think sometimes if someone didn’t follow campaign and go for election only for select a random name, it is better to not vote.
Nowadays, it is easy to play a character in front of people. That is why everyone hears about candidates and how nice they are only until voting is done.
Moreover, it is not about what they say but how loud that is said. So people more likely choose candidate that they were heard of. The best example is United States presidential election, 2016. Internet was talking about Donald Trump since the news about his decision to enter presidential race. Even after he became president, some says that it is because of his popularity and not because of his political ability.
That why it is important to decide only looking at what candidates say and what plans they want to achieve.
Thats why I think that making voting mandatory is just a bad idea. Voting is privilege and we are not living in country, where forcing someone is treaten as good practice.
First of all Everyone should go vote this day. A lot of people think that him or her one vote can't change anything but it's the biggest fail. If you don't vote remember that policy is very dirty and they can do something like use of the votes of non-participants. Also maybe really if one person doesn't vote it will not change the score but we have to remember that in this way can thing big group of people and a lot of votes could be wasted or used incorrectly.
Voting is very very important thing because we decide about our future. To begin with five years but our decisions could have an impact on further times.
Compulsory voting - I am not convinced of that... I would rather choose lower turnout of "aware" voters, than 100% turnout with 60% of random choices.
I think we could start encouraging to vote by giving more feeling of "power" to the people. By having more referendums we could feel like we are not cheated by the politics who has promised to do something but take things into our hands. This kind of system works in Switzerland and is probably one of the most demarcation in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2018
Another thing that should be taken advantage of is Internet. We are able in creating secure voting system and this way we could encourage way more people that doesn't vote now. This is working in Estonia and 30% of voters does it this way. Personally I would be very interested in doing it via Internet also.
Last thing worth mentioning is mandatory voting. I think being obliged to do something sounds awfully and results in some unwanted scenarios. Having data of people that do not vote can lead to branding them and creating "rating" system of good citizens, like in China
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese-government-social-credit-score-privacy-invasion
What we really need is a change in the voting system itself, including how the electoral districts are defined and how the votes themselves are counted. Current form of democracy as seen in most of the world tends to naturally lead to two-party situations, where any votes not going to the one of the big players are wasted due to the nature of the system. I urge you to watch a video by CGP Grey that highlights the problems inherent to the most commonly used vote counting system: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo . In related videos you should be able to find others discussing other problems and possible solutions to them that could be adopted to make democracy feel like the rule of majority again.
-"Who do you voted for and why?"
-"I voted for XXX because I don't wan't to YYY to win."
-"Ok, and what about ZZZ?"
-"They ideas look good, but they are not popular enough to fights against XXX and YYY, so I've chosen less evil".
It's a pity, that we have to choose one 2 giants for next 4/5 years and later we don't have opportunity to question their plans and decisions. I'm mean, there is a way, but biurocracy is too complex to really take action and make your point.
I wish, that some day there'll be a website to vote - all candidates will be post their program there. Then people will have the opportunity to compare each candidate and choose wisely without even moving from a couch.
Nowadays, the majority of people who go to elections are elders - they have time to do that and solid views about candidates. They see only pros of one political party and cons of other.
To sum up, I think that people should vote for their candidates, maybe not mandatory but still, it's very important - I think that they don't do it because of the chaos in our politics. Voting by website could be a good idea - it can really solves a lot of problems. Questioning decisions of our goverment at daily basis should be more pleasant and easiest to do.
I don’t like the idea of the compulsory voting. As author said, in case of compulsory voting uninformed and uninterested people will vote as well, because they’re forced to do so, and it doesn’t make the election results objective because those people simply don’t care! And if they don’t, why should they vote?
In my opinion, in order to make people vote, election process should be radically changed. Some time ago I heard an interesting idea about elections using blockchain technology, which offers transparency and security. I’d definitely vote if I knew that my vote is REALLY matters.
I have personally voted since I was 18 years old. I read political programs and choose candidates who I think are the most right.
I hope that in some time there will be better parties in Poland than what is currently.
There is always a difference between candidates and even if someone's election program is slightly better it is still better. Society should be more involved in their country affairs and be more educated about politics.
Also I would like to see some inovative ways for voting, because sometimes it's hard or even impossible to get to the voting place. There should be a way to vote through internet and make it much more convenient for citizens. Electronic signs or things like this can prevent people from cheating or voting serveal times. I think making it possible would cause the vote indicator will be much higher.
I don’t think that my vote and the election at all could change my life or the life of people. It maybe could change the ‘environment’ in what we are living but not the life.
I am still not convinced about voting being fun, but I agree with Mr. Liu that not voting is still voting. By not voting we do not only loose our privilege to support, but also our privilege to oppose. By not opposing we give opportunity to those with ill intents to join political environment, which in turn creates confusion and lack of trust. I believe that may be the reason why so many people choose not to vote.
In my opinion voting should not be mandatory. There are just too many people who don’t know anything about politics or just simply don’t care. We should concentrate on educating those people in this subject rather than force them to vote and hope for the best.
In my opinion, people who are politically aware should vote.
Actualy in Poland people very often are voting just to express their hate for one or the other political party.
This way of voting gives these parties a very large electorate and provides a duopoly of power like single-member constituencies in the United States - it favors two parties.
In the case of local elections, we vote for a specific person and party affiliation is not as important as in the case of parliamentary elections, because we know the candidate well and his achievements.
The existence of the item “against all” in the bulletins is the best option for those who have not come to an unequivocal decision, made a decision for themselves to be against all as well as people who simply do not want to bother themselves with policies and affairs associated with it.
The involvement of different groups of the population is certainly the most important factor for each election. As stated in the presentation, in 2012 the turnout in the American elections of different groups of the population was less than 50 percent. This indicator is incredibly low. So why don't people vote?
There are many options: they have no desire, do not believe politicians, be afraid to be deceived, and so on. Two sides must be involved: both the candidate’s side and the representatives of the electorate. A vote gives the right to choose, does it really give? Trusting once and instead of receiving deception a person will not take that risk again. The dialogue between the two parties must be respected and not stopped after the elections.
In the video, we also touched upon the topic of enticing the population to elections and politics with carnivals and various performances. Let's consider this option from different perspectives. If we are talking about such an important choice as the choice of the person who will lead the country, it’s enough foolish to choose it for the color and pomp of the performance that it is outdated. This was relevant earlier, now this action has completely lost its meaning. Correspondingly, no one took away from the public the opportunity to communicate and openly express their political opinions. What prevents each of us from talking a few minutes about politics with our colleagues over a cup of coffee? Discussions are the right and most effective attitude. When you talk with people, you still think about the topic and the problem and begin to sort it out deeper.
And yet, I believe that everyone should come to the polls. Which of the candidates to choose or take a position "against all" is up to you. In addition, it is especially important that people from different groups are involved in the vote.
Unfortunately in some countries the majority of voters are citizens who are over 50 years old. This is kind of problem. The question is raising: "Why the elders have to decide in which future youngsters are going to live ?". There are few reasons for that. The first one is that it is easier to manipulate by most of older people, because they tend to believe what is said on TV or written in news paper and it's not that easy to change their mind. The second one is the younger generating is a bit passive when it comes to politic. Some of them just do not understand the fact that their vote can really change something. I really admire the idea that Eric Liu trying to develop. Namely to gather people show them that they are important, needed.
The existence of the item “against all” in the bulletins is the best option for those who have not come to an unequivocal decision, made a decision for themselves to be against all as well as people who simply do not want to bother themselves with policies and affairs associated with it.
The involvement of different groups of the population is certainly the most important factor for each election. As stated in the presentation, in 2012 the turnout in the American elections of different groups of the population was less than 50 percent. This indicator is incredibly low. So why don't people vote?
There are many options: they have no desire, do not believe politicians, be afraid to be deceived, and so on. Two sides must be involved: both the candidate’s side and the representatives of the electorate. A vote gives the right to choose, does it really give? Trusting once and instead of receiving deception a person will not take that risk again. The dialogue between the two parties must be respected and not stopped after the elections.
In the video, we also touched upon the topic of enticing the population to elections and politics with carnivals and various performances. Let's consider this option from different perspectives. If we are talking about such an important choice as the choice of the person who will lead the country, it’s enough foolish to choose it for the color and pomp of the performance that it is outdated. This was relevant earlier, now this action has completely lost its meaning. Correspondingly, no one took away from the public the opportunity to communicate and openly express their political opinions. What prevents each of us from talking a few minutes about politics with our colleagues over a cup of coffee? Discussions are the right and most effective attitude. When you talk with people, you still think about the topic and the problem and begin to sort it out deeper.
And yet, I believe that everyone should come to the polls. Which of the candidates to choose or take a position "against all" is up to you. In addition, it is especially important that people from different groups are involved in the vote.
Of course, I want people to vote because the majority of those who complain about the situation in our country are those who do not go to vote. Such people should not take the voice when it comes to political topics because they do not contribute to any changes.
When referring to the film, I definitely remembered that people should reconcile on this day. It is known that different people have their views and their parties but we should not spit on each other if someone votes are not our way - everyone has the right to their own opinion, vote.
Monika Lachowicz s12560