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Week 9 (18.05-24.05) Should the firearm in Poland be widely available?



In Poland you may have a fire gun  but only if you get a required license. But should we fully legalize weapon possession in Poland?




In Poland obtaining a permit for a gun is not easy. The exam is not only  practical  but theoretical as well: it confirms your knowledge of the law and the ability to use the weapon. We must also provide a valid reason why we need such a permit. A person who would like to obtain a permit for a gun should:
     be at least 21 years old;
     be a permanent resident of Poland
     have  active legal capacity;
     be mentally and physically healthy
     not have a criminal record.
.

Are we safer without widespread access to weapons?
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - there are 89 guns for every 100 Americans, compared to 6 in England or 2 in Poland
And the murder figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 550 murders per year. In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms. In Poland in 2011 we had over 360 murders, but only 20 of them were caused by firearms (due to restricted access to guns).
In my opinion here in Poland people should have easier access to weapons (easier, but still under control by the police!). Why? Because That could prevent many robberies (bad guys would think twice before they decide to assault someone - because their victim may have a weapon and use it against them). Moreover I don’t think that more weapons would lead to more crimes - before 1918 Poles could legally possess weapons and the number of crimes were not significantly higher. And my last argument in favor of facilitating access to weapons - more weapons = higher defense potential of our nation - which as history shows, is very important (November Uprising, Warsaw Uprising etc).

Sources:



Comments

Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said…
I'm strictly against changing the law when it comes to the access to the weapon. The main reason is that most of the society isn't, softly saying, very wise. They wouldn't use it properly and I'm pretty sure that it would cause the increase of the ciriminality's rates. I can't even think which of the requirements should be abonished. Should it be legal under 21? Why don't we get straight to the handing the weapon out to school-age kids? The requirement applying to the mental and physical health doesn't sound ridiculous either. I'm not fully for the constant interfering of the government into social affairs but it guarantee us the safety and there's no other way than exercising control over the flow of the weapon on the area of our country.
Unknown said…
In my opinion access to weapons should be bigger than now but for right people. In the other hand people are unpredictable and we don’t know how will be our opinion. Sometimes person can go insane and no one can predict how he comports himself with weapon. Of course there are accidents when gun can be only way to self-protection. It could guard even from death. Before getting license for weapons people should have adequate control test and it should be repeated once a year for example. There should be strictly defined rules to use guns and extremely severe penalties for break these rules.
A permit for a gun as you said is the most popular in the USA. In my opinion this causes a lot of harm for innocent people. Moreover teenagers have friends who are over 21 years old and this might cause easier access to weapon for them. I heard many times about teenagers who took gun from their parents and whole story ended with death. I do not see possessing a gun as the only way to deal with crime and robbery. This way our country will become one huge threat, not only for criminals but for ordinary man.

The fact about number of crimes with weapon only shows that thanks to restricted law we don't have to deal with high rate of murders caused by firearms. The only advantage of possessing a weapon is fact that sooner or later there might be a war or the invasion of foreigners that would like to hurt us.
MartaSB said…
Some time ago in Warsaw I had an incident in a suburban bus when two men went inside with a gun (not with good intentions) and I can only agree with Jakub that allowing firearm possession will only increase the ciriminality rate.

I believe there is a collection of topics that can be summarized: yes, this is a good idea to implement in a _mature_ and _wise_ society.
In fact, if they would like to do make it work in Poland, it should require changing much more than only the part about firearm possession in the law. Why have a gun if you cannot use it to self-defence? You cannot even have a knife that is longer than the one of the attacker or be trained in martial arts, because they will treat the attacker as "at a disadvantage" if he get's hurt.

A lot of people have the impression that we are in a 'safe place', but in fact it's just because nothing really happend to them or their families (yet). Hopefully it never will, but when something happens we are mostly on our own. It's good to know the law and have some idea of how you can effectively defend yourself (using a gun or not) in the case of a problem :)
Unknown said…
In my opinion firearms should definitely be illegal. I don't think that giving guns to people would make then any safer. Having a gun in the house makes living there statistically more dangerous. It becomes more probable that someone will shot somebody by mistake or out of fear or interfere with a dangerous situation instead of waiting for police. And even if people owning guns would be mentally healthy it doesn't mean they are intelligent or capable of behaving rationally under pressure. There are a lot of cases in United States where people killed their loved ones by mistake or kids that killed their classmates because they had access to their parents guns. In my opinion one of the factors because of which police is so violent in United States is because "everybody" can own a gun and is a potential fret.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html#.VVsXFqmTVfY
rf. said…
I strongly agree with already presented here opinion that firearms availability in Poland should not be widened. The strongest argument here is an overall responsibility / maturity of the society. Plus, it's not really difficult to get a weapon permit if you really think it important.
Unknown said…
who will decide which people are "right" to have easier acces to weapon? dont you think that creating privileged social groups would be very risky and unfair? I think that if we decide to change the law we should change it for all citizens :-)
Unknown said…
"this is a good idea to implement in a _mature_ and _wise_ society" - totally agree. But aren't our society mature enough? Be honest - most people aren't criminals and even if they have easier acces to guns it wouldnt change anything. how do i know? because we dont need a gun to try rob a bank, assault on someone on street etc - we could easily use a different weapon.. knive/axe/whatever. Easy access wont turn anyone into a criminal
Unknown said…
Imagine this: you are sitting in home alone, when suddenly you and your family are attack by armored man.
And you cant defent yourself, because you dont have a gun (robber ias aware of that aswell - thats why he's not affraid to attack anyone)
What can you do in such a situation? call police and wait for them like 10/20/30 minutes?
Restricted access to weapons is great option but only if we as a society can rely on law enforcement +
we are sure that anyone who is not allowed to ccarry a gun does not have any. In other cases we should be able to defend ourselves and our families.
Unknown said…
I dont feel safety. I called police once and had to wait for them over 20 minutes to arrive. That doesn not guarentee safety. I would rather be able to defend myself than wait for someone to help me..
Unknown said…
I think full legalization of weapon possession in Poland is not a good idea.In my opinion the police department in our country is quite disfunctional. Criminals knows that they can do anything, because police officers prefer catching people that steal candy bars worth 0.50zl (because they have nothing to eat), rather than solving real crimes. Regardless of all necessary permissions, easier access to weapon would give bad people one more tool to threaten the good ones. It is definitely the last thing we need and it will probably do more harm than good.
MartaSB said…
That's true, but I think that even if it's not a big group of people, accidents can happen, caused by those who are not responsible enough to assess the danger of a gun (for example while being drunk). If people would buy firearm freely, there will be a large group of those who are not properly trained to use it or just keep it at home (out of children's reach). Accidents happen even in some US states where it is legal for some time now, but as a 'new thing' in Poland... I think it could be a disaster.

Still, now if you want to legally have a gun, you can have it, but with proper training and permission. Why should we let people buy it basically without any control?
I don't think it's people like us who should decide on that matter.

I've seen a lot of statistics concerning crime rates and availability of weapons, but the comparisons are mainly made by people of organisations strongly-pro or strongly-against unlimited avalaibility of guns. I think that a long-term, thoughtful, international and objective research should be held by the specialists before the law changes.

Sure, if a criminal wants to have a gun, he’ll buy one, no matter if it’s legal or not, and access to firearms would give the victim a chance to defend. However, think about that: do you really believe people who don't need guns would buy one once the law changes? Do you believe everyone will carry a gun in their pocket to be really able to do something? Do you think old people will carry guns to avod being robbed or that women will hide them in their purses when going out at night?

Do you believe everyone will be able to afford a gun? Do you believe that, given a choice, people would risk to use it? Do you think assaulted person would have a chance to draw it fast enough to threaten the assaulter in any way?

Besides - of course, some of the criminals already possess weapons, even if it's not legal, But surely, not all of them. I'm pretty sure some minor thugs or robbers find the difficulties with obtaining a gun hard to overcome. Unrestricted access to guns would give them more tools to harm others.

I'm not saying I would ban the firearms or anything like that. I'm just saying we're not specialists. We can't predict how our society would behave. If the research shows the firearms should be legal to increase our safety, so be it. Nevertheless, I don't think it should be for 'normal' people to decide.
Don't you think it's the unrestricted availability that would create such privilaged groups? Only the people who can afford it would buy a gun.

I don't see a problem with control tests. I wouldn't like to give a gun to a mentally unstable people or former criminals, for example, and I don't see how that's unfair.
Unknown said…
People are dying in car accidents, should we forbid cars?
Unknown said…
Because in Poland obtaining permit for gun is not easy - it takes a lot of efford and time. In additions exams, tests and permissions costs more than a gun itself (about 2000pln, gun is 1200-1300pln)
Unknown said…
Yes, but only few can afford to buy a ferrari. Does it seem to be unfair?
Unknown said…
On one hand maybe widely and easily available gun possession would decrease robbery, but on the other it would increase risk involving guns and the implication of that would be higher risk involving human life.

I have never felt to be in need of possessing a gun or other fire arm. I have also never been in a situation requiring me to use one. Even if there would be a situation in which it would help solving the situation, I probably could use a fake gun.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Right to defend yourself and own a gun is the natural right which have been revoked by multiple governments. The problem is that weapons cannot be easily reinstantated to the society without casaulites. This also appllies to the inverse process. Restoring these rights should be a long process.

Using a fake gun is one of the worst you could do in the danger. This would easily get you killed, I promise. The most stupid thing is taking out a knife if you're not ready to use it especially in Poland and when you can't use it properly and 99.9999% of people can't.

Fortunately pepper sprays are quite effective.
I don't know why people want to have a gun. Personally I wouldn't find reason to have a gun. I think that it's dangerous when you have this thing in house. Sometimes something stupid comes to people mind. On the other hand I think that it's not difficult to buy gun on black market. I remember great film about gun trading - Lord of War.
Unknown said…

First of all I wouldn't like to have a gun and I wouldn't want to shoot anybody, even a thief. And if someone breaks in and they see me with a gun, they are definitely going to try to shoot me , if I hide and wait there is a high possibility that they won't kill me. Most robbers just want to steal things not to kill. I knew people that had house robberies when they were inside their houses and they didn't even notice, because someone got in, took some stuff and left. Now "imagine" if they would run down with a gun and start shooting with the thieves.

Now I live in an apartment with guard downstairs so I feel quite safe here and I don't think that it would be easy to break in here. And earlier I lived in a house and we had an alarm that would go off when someone would be outside or inside and we also had "panic buttons" that would make guards arrive and it takes them about 3 minutes(I don't remember exactly, but they are quite quick) to come to the house. So I think that people living in houses should first get a good security company and then a gun if they need it.
Unknown said…
As far as my opinion is concerned, I think that it is very reasonable and responsible that in Poland it is so hard to buy weapon. If gun was so easily accessible it could significantly influenced our safety.
Unknown said…
I agree with you. The more right people have firearms the safer we are. But I think we should change the self defense law first. Person being attacked shouldn’t be sentenced for harming the attacker, especially in his own house. I’ve read about lots of cases in which victim went behind bars because of successful defense. Because our society don’t know how to use guns properly and safely, access to guns should be easier to achieve over time. I think starting with a firearm certificate for home defense would be a good start.
Unknown said…

In my opinion having firearms would make a lot of trouble. Of course people would feel safer but I would be afraid of coming home late or meeting another person with a gun. I don’t think it is a good idea that everyone should have a gun. I definitely don’t think that is a good idea.
Unknown said…
I reckon that gun ownership rate shouldn't be increased in Poland as it could create a lot of social problems. Not everybody is responsible and storing a gun in an insecure place could end up in a serious accident, for instance teenagers and mentally unstable people could have access to weapon from other people (e.g. family and friends) and they could fire it even not on purpose. I've heard about many examples of people being killed by accident and I think it could happen a lot in Poland if gun ownership was more widely available.
Unknown said…
In my opinion full legalize weapon is not a good idea. Personal I think that could create social problem. I think possession of a weapon in the house gives only an illusion of safety. Ordinary people can not use the weapon with out contemplate.
With widely available weapons I would not feel safe. I will not have the courage to defend my-selves and I would be afraid people for whom I pass on the street.
Unknown said…
I even don't know where to start. If you look at the perfect example of United States you will see all the consequences of free availability of fire arms. Everybody has access to it for self defense as well as to attack others. How often do you hear about attacks with REAL in Poland? Once a year? Once per two years? And at least few times a year there are shooting accidents in US schools. If you say that possession of a pistol or other weapon would make you feel more secure because there are some organized criminals who also posses guns I can only respond that wide access to firearms would put those in hands of all small criminals, not only those organized ones.
Unknown said…
That's not a really valid argument, cars are useful and the only purpose of a gun is to shoot and to harm an animal or a human being.
Unknown said…
I'm totally against making any weapon more available than it's now. Nowadays the rate of aggresive behavious is still too high and making requirements less stict would only increase them. If there were no weapon at all, we wouldn't have to defend anybody from anyone. We should choose the path of more peaceful world, rather than be focused on making any weapon legal for everybody. It sounds seriously ridiculous, every requirement mentioned in the presentation makes sense so I wouldn't do anything with them, unless it's hindering wide access to the weapon.
That's what think about sometimes. People should have better access to guns (under mental health circumstance) in order to protect their property and don't live in constant fear of being robbed or even murdered.
Unknown said…
In Iceland there are 300 000 people and 90 000 guns. They never use it, just have it for safety reasons. There are less than 200 prisoners and when a couple of years ago there was an organised criminal group od Poles captured, they made more than 10% of all criminals in this country! I am about to read a book "Skazana" about a woman, having murdered two people, that was located in some family's house because there was no prison in Iceland and the government decided that it would be better for her to socialize (even though she was waiting for death penalty). But Iceland is a very specific place and everybody is like family there, so there are no roberies and practically no crimes.
I think that obtaining a permit for a gun is absolutely necessary for a person to posess a gun. I don't know much about the rules and exams but in my opinion it should not be easy. A have an uncle in Chicago and he told me that gunshots are nothing unusual there and people die in the streets everyday because of careless/ill-considered firearm use. All the guns should be registered and the owners should be checked on regularly.
In my opinion, in a truly democratic country, citizens should be allowed to own a firearm.
Of course, there needs to be some kind of control so that, for example, people mentally ill or with an extensive criminal record wouldn't be able to legally acquire a firearm.
I just think that it's weird that in a free country you are denied ownership of a weapon that is meant to be a tool of protection.
But firearms aside, I really wish that our laws concerning self defence would change, now they are so strict that in most cases you can get a worse sentence in court rather than the person that assaulted you if you wound him or even in some cases kill while defending your life.
I agree that the access to weapons should be easier. Unfortunately, an unarmed society is much easier to control, that's why we won't see it for a very long time.
Unknown said…
As Jim Jeffrys said - there are two types of people - those who love guns and those who has brains.
In Australia they had one of the biggest mass-murdering, after that the government decided: 'Well, guys, it was fun, but you crossed the line, we take your guns' after that there was no any single case of mass-murdering.
Those who love guns have a lot of arguments, but the most valid is: '**** you! Guns are cool!'. All other arguments like - 'I want to be able to protect my family from the killers' are invalid. Come on! You have too damn high self-esteem, that you think that some random guy would like to brake in your apartment and kill you with all your family, more than that, you overthink your importance in the world - that some people in the European country will want your death (of course if you are not playing with feelings of muslims and their god, then we all know what could happen).
In other words - I think Poland does well without gun. You don't need to bring new social problems in your society, you live good enough to be happy without playing in Clint Eastwood.
Unknown said…
I agree that people should have easier access to weapons. Having a gun is difficult only for honest people - criminals will always find a way to get their hands on weapons the same as people find a way to get illegal drugs. Making it easier for people to carry fire guns could help to reduce violence and prevent robberies in Poland.

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